Cris Thomas, also known as Space Rogue, was a founding member of the legendary L0pht Heavy Industries — the hacker collective that famously told the U.S. Senate they could take down the internet in 30 minutes. He would go on to found the Hacker News Network, giving the underground a voice and warning the world how vulnerable it was. He told the full story in his award-winning book, Space Rogue.

Chapters

0:00 Intro

0:40 Who is Space Rogue?

2:58 Growing up in rural Maine

4:20 Parents' divorce and its lasting impact

5:44 Building flashlights from trash — early curiosity

7:33 Childhood trauma and turning to computers

11:38 Joining the Army and buying his first Mac

14:47 Discovering BBSs and the modem world

21:10 Origin of the "Space Rogue" handle

23:19 Working as a security guard at Lotus

24:34 Dialing into BBSs from the Lotus overnight shift

32:27 The Works, 2600 meetings, and meeting the crew

36:13 What hacker meetups were actually like

40:28 Working at CompUSA with future L0pht members

42:59 CDC vs L0pht — setting the record straight

46:26 How the L0pht actually formed

53:37 The MIT flea market

57:10 Paranoia about law enforcement and the hacker crackdowns

1:01:54 Finding vulnerabilities and responsible disclosure struggles

1:06:16 L0pht v1 to v2 — moving to Watertown and membership changes

1:13:47 Fondest L0pht memories

1:16:25 Realizing L0pht was famous at Beyond Hope

1:19:02 L0phtCrack, t-shirts, and turning the hobby into a business

1:23:06 The birth of Hacker News Network

1:28:36 Breaking stories and becoming the "Voice of Reason"

1:31:01 Legion of Underground declares cyber war

1:41:59 The Senate testimony — how it came about

1:44:42 Suits, a rented van, and the road trip to DC

1:49:46 Reflecting on the testimony's real impact

1:53:55 "Security is here, it's just unevenly distributed"

1:54:27 The security boom and the road to At Stake

2:00:12 The At Stake deal — "garage band or mega band?"

2:05:24 Getting fired from At Stake — losing his identity

2:13:13 The lost decade — depression and rebuilding

2:15:24 Tan's call that changed everything — HNN goes video

2:22:11 Writing the book — motivation, self-publishing, and healing

2:27:40 Legacy and impact

2:29:42 Closing

Rob Knake's fingerprints are all over modern cyber policy. As White House Director for Cybersecurity Policy, he helped craft the nation’s most significant cybersecurity strategy in nearly two decades and guided the response to major national cyber incidents. He’s advised presidents, shaped global cyber norms, co-authored two influential books on cyber conflict, and served as a senior fellow at Harvard and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

03:15 - Growing Up with New Deal Democrats

06:30 - "To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required."

10:45 - Choosing Public Service Over Corporate Law

14:20 - Education at Connecticut College

18:30 - Democracy, Capitalism & Fukuyama's End of History

22:10 - Coast Guard Internship & Steve Flynn's Influence

27:45 - Richard Clarke & Early Cyber Policy Work

32:20 - The Emergence of Cyber as a National Security Threat

36:40 - From Good Harbor Consulting to Government Service

40:15 - Working on Counterterrorism at DHS

44:30 - The Bin Laden Raid Era & Shifting to Cyber

48:20 - Joining the Obama White House NSC

52:45 - Life as an NSC Staffer - Long Hours & Mission

56:30 - Stuxnet & Understanding Real-World Cyber Threats

01:00:15 - The Failed 2011 Cybersecurity Legislation

01:04:40 - Executive Order 13636 & The NIST Framework

01:09:20 - Operation Aurora & Chinese IP Theft

01:13:45 - Nudges vs Shoves - Voluntary vs Mandatory Security

01:18:30 - The Need for Cybersecurity Regulation

01:22:50 - Who Should Regulate & How to Regulate

01:27:10 - Software Liability & Outcome-Based Security

01:32:25 - The SolarWinds/Sunburst Attack Explained

01:37:40 - Private Equity's Impact on Cybersecurity

01:41:15 - The Failure of Collective Defense

01:45:30 - Government vs Private Sector Responsibility

01:52:20 - Why Government Can't Take Over Cyber Defense

01:58:45 - The Rise of Ransomware as a Threat

02:03:30 - Should We Ban Ransomware Payments?

02:08:15 - Corporate Hack-Back Operations

02:11:40 - Holding Nation-States Accountable for Ransomware

02:16:25 - Deterrence vs Resilience in Cyber Policy

02:22:10 - Are We Winning in Cybersecurity?

02:26:30 - AI's Impact on Cybersecurity

02:29:45 - Trump Administration & Potential Regulatory Changes

02:33:20 - The Public Sector Pay Gap Problem

02:38:50 - Current Work in the Private Sector

02:42:15 - Bridging the Hacker-Policy Divide

02:45:30 - Closing Thoughts

Mohammed Bagha—who keeps his hacker handles anonymous and goes simply by ‘MB’—was one of the most feared hackers of the 1990s. With a larger-than-life online persona and the skills to back it up, he infiltrated corporate systems, telecom networks, and even the machines of other well-known hackers. He exposed their flaws, mocked their code, and dropped their secrets in public forums. But narrow misses with the law soon changed his path, and like many from that era, he turned his talents to defense—helping global companies strengthen their security and build lasting strategies.