Recessions are not caused by booms. They are triggered by shocks. That is the conclusion Tyler Goodspeed reached after studying data across four centuries. Most of what we believe about economic downturns does not survive the evidence.

Tyler is Chief Economist at ExxonMobil, former acting Chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, and holds dual PhDs from Harvard and Cambridge. His new book, ‘Recession: The Real Reasons Economies Shrink and What to Do About It’, draws on figures stretching back to the 18th century. It upends everything we think we know about booms, busts, and what comes next.

This episode of Earn The Right Podcast is for investors, founders, and executives trying to read the economic moment.

Tyler joins Apoorv Agarwal to break down the causes of a recession, challenge the most widely held economic beliefs, and examine what historical technology cycles tell us about the AI investment wave. He also explains the plucking model and what it means for anyone trying to make smarter decisions about their money, their business, or their career during a downturn.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

• Why the boom-and-bust story is more myth than reality, and what actually causes economies to contract
• What 18th-century Atlantic piracy reveals about modern supply chain shocks and the Strait of Hormuz
• What the bottlenecks in AI infrastructure mean for the pace of technological change

ABOUT TYLER

Tyler Goodspeed is Chief Economist of ExxonMobil. He previously served as acting Chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, where he also chaired the OECD’s Economic Policy Committee. He holds a PhD in history from Harvard and a PhD in economics from Cambridge, and taught at Oxford and King’s College London. He is also a Griffin Fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution. His latest book, ‘Recession: The Real Reasons Economies Shrink and What to Do About It’, is his first written for a general audience. It challenges conventional wisdom on recessions with data stretching back to the 1700s and practical lessons for investors, executives, and policymakers alike.

ABOUT EARN THE RIGHT PODCAST

How do the world's most impactful leaders think, decide and build? Through unfiltered conversations, Earn The Right Podcast takes listeners inside the rooms where the hardest choices are made: from building billion-dollar companies to navigating doubt, reinvention and change. The show is hosted by Apoorv Agarwal, an AI scientist, entrepreneur (Text IQ, acquired 2021) and Columbia PhD, who has advised Fortune 500 leaders. For founders and decision-makers developing the future, this is your front-row seat to how the best earn the right to lead.

Subscribe to Earn The Right Podcast for conversations with the world's most influential leaders.

JoAnn Stonier has been ahead of every major wave in data, AI governance, and AI safety. Formerly Mastercard's first Chief Data Officer and American Express's first Chief Privacy Officer, she now advises governments and corporations on responsible AI, enterprise AI adoption, and how to scale AI without losing control.

As President of Cantellus Group, she works with Fortune 500 boards on AI strategy and responsible innovation. She sits on the United Nations Expert Group on Governance and Artificial Intelligence and co-chairs the World Economic Forum's Global Future Council on Data Policy.

In this episode of Earn The Right Podcast, she joins Apoorv Agarwal to discuss how to drive enterprise AI adoption inside large organisations, what rogue AI agents and autonomous AI agents reveal about building technology, and why the leaders winning the AI race manage AI risk from day one.

JoAnn explains why embedding AI governance into product design allows companies to move faster, not slower. She breaks down the OpenClaw incident as a real-world example of what happens when agents pursue goals without guardrails. She also shares the exact profile of the Chief AI Officer every enterprise needs right now, why the CAIO role is the most misunderstood, and why most companies are hiring the wrong person for it.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

- What happens when autonomous AI agents operate without values, and how to stop it before it hits your organisation

- The first question every CEO and board should ask before deploying an enterprise AI strategy

- Why waiting on AI adoption is not the safe strategy you think it is, and what responsible AI leadership looks like instead

ABOUT JOANN

JoAnn Stonier is President of Cantellus Group, a boutique advisory firm helping boards and executives navigate the strategy, oversight, and governance of AI and frontier technologies. She spent 17 years at Mastercard, serving as Chief Privacy Officer, Chief Information Governance Officer, and the company's first Chief Data Officer, responsible for enterprise-wide data strategy across 210 countries and billions of transactions. She later served as a Mastercard Fellow for Data and AI. Before Mastercard, she was the first Chief Privacy Officer at American Express, appointed by CEO Ken Chenault. She sits on the United Nations Expert Group on Governance and Artificial Intelligence and co-chairs the World Economic Forum's Global Future Council on Data Policy. She teaches at Carnegie Mellon University and Pratt Institute, and advises boards including Omnicom Group and Lytical Ventures. She holds degrees in accounting and finance, computer science, law, and interior design.

ABOUT EARN THE RIGHT

How do the world's most impactful leaders think, decide and build? Through unfiltered conversations, the Earn The Right podcast takes listeners inside the rooms where the hardest choices are made: from building billion-dollar companies to navigating doubt, reinvention and change. The show is hosted by Apoorv Agarwal, an AI scientist, entrepreneur (Text IQ, acquired 2021) and Columbia PhD, who has advised Fortune 500 leaders. For founders and decision-makers developing the future, this is your front-row seat to how the best earn the right to lead.

Subscribe to Earn The Right for conversations with the world's most influential leaders.

Kathy Kay has led technology through some of America's biggest crises. From the Great Recession to California wildfires to a global pandemic, she was the person building systems that kept companies and people afloat.

As EVP and CIO at Principal Financial Group, she brings a battle-tested instinct for building technology through disruption. She has done it at General Motors, PG&E, Comerica, and SunTrust Bank. Every role sharpened her approach to innovating with compliance. That cross-industry depth is exactly what makes her perspective on scaling enterprise AI worth listening to right now.

In this episode of Earn The Right Podcast, she joins Apoorv Agarwal to discuss enterprise AI adoption, the build vs. buy decision for AI agents, and why being a regulated company is no excuse to move slowly.

Kathy shares how she democratised AI across an entire organisation, starting by opening her first ChatGPT study group to attorneys, compliance, risk, and engineers all at the same time. From there, she explains why the one-time cost to build software is always the cheapest part of any program. She also makes the case for why human contact becomes more valuable, not less, as AI automates everything around it.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

• Build vs. buy for AI: why the one-time cost is always the cheapest part of any program
• Why outcome-based pricing aligns AI vendor contracts better than seat-based models
• The difference between a mentor and an advocate, and why your career needs both

ABOUT KATHY KAY

Kathy Kay is Executive Vice President and Chief Information Officer at Principal Financial Group. She leads global technology strategy, IT operations, security, and innovation across retirement, insurance, and asset management. Under her leadership, Principal went from 800 to 17,000 active AI users in a single year across a workforce of 20,000. She was inducted into the US CIO Hall of Fame in 2026. She won CIO of the Year at the Technology Association of Iowa's 2023 Prometheus Awards. Before Principal, she served as SVP and CIO at PG&E during the California wildfire crisis, CTO at SunTrust Bank, and SVP and CTO at Comerica through the 2008 financial crisis. She began her career at General Motors Research Labs and OnStar, building connected vehicle systems that saved lives.

ABOUT EARN THE RIGHT PODCAST

How do the world's most impactful leaders think, decide and build? Through unfiltered conversations, the Earn The Right podcast takes listeners inside the rooms where the hardest choices are made: from building billion-dollar companies to navigating doubt, reinvention and change. The show is hosted by Apoorv Agarwal, an AI scientist, entrepreneur (Text IQ, acquired 2021) and Columbia PhD, who has advised Fortune 500 leaders. For founders and decision-makers developing the future, this is your front-row seat to how the best earn the right to lead.

Subscribe to Earn The Right for conversations with the world's most influential leaders.