In this episode, hosts Caleb and Cathy are joined by fellow Perimeter counselor Ashley Cable for a conversation about chronic illness. Drawing from Ashley’s own lived experience of walking through multiple ongoing illnesses, the three discuss what it looks like to cling to truth and trust God in circumstances that feel long, painful, and uncertain.

Throughout the conversation, they touch on applying the truths of Scripture through experiencing chronic pain, learning to lament with God in what Ashley calls her “bathroom floor days”. Walking through themes from Romans 8, they reflect on what it means to sit honestly with the Lord and redefine flourishing—not by our standards, but by God’s. They also offer practical reflections for those who suffer, as well as for helpers and loved ones who want to walk alongside them with wisdom and compassion.

We pray this episode brings comfort, hope, and a reminder that God is near in the waiting. If Ashley’s story resonates with you, we invite you to explore her blog post, Chronic Illness - Why His Presence Matters.

Additional Resources:

• Read Jeanne Harrison’s poem from her blog, Loving My Lot, entitled When Life Disappoints

• Read David Powlison’s book, God's Grace in Your Suffering

• Read John Piper’s article from Desiring God, God is Always Doing 10,000 Things In Your Life

• Read or listen to Esther Liu’s CCEF article, When God's Promises Feel Untrue

• (00:00:00) - Ashley Cable on the Perimeter Counseling Podcast
• (00:01:34) - Ashley's Story of Chronic Illness
• (00:09:25) - God's Love for Us
• (00:15:30) - "I Know He's Got a Purpose"
• (00:15:45) - Chronic illness and the message of Romans 8
• (00:25:18) - God's Presence on the Bathroom Floor

In this episode, hosts Caleb and Cathy are joined by Jimmy Kim, Executive Leader of Family Transformation at Perimeter, for a thoughtful discussion on guilt and shame. Jimmy speaks from his own background as a Korean American to shed light on how shame and grace can feel so difficult to walk through. Together, they explore how scripture and our union with Christ speaks so directly to our shame.

They address the difference between guilt and shame, the ways shame can grow when we hide the difficult parts of our stories, and how our culture or upbringing can impact our experience. They also discuss the feeling that God’s favor must be earned and why grace feels so difficult for some to embrace. Jimmy reminds us that there is no part of our story unknown to God and that nothing can separate us from His love.

We pray this episode offers encouragement and freedom, reminding you that Jesus is our perfect advocate who willingly took on and defeated our shame at the cross. If shame feels overwhelming or persistent in your life, we invite you to consider connecting with a counselor here.

Additional Resources:

• Read Tim Keller’s book, The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness

• Read You’re Only Human by Kelly Kapic

• Read a blog from one of our counselors, George Vaughan, Replacing False Beliefs with the Truth

• Listen to Caleb and Jimmy’s song recommendations, “Rock of Ages (Solid Rock)” and “Christ the Sure and Steady Anchor”, to continue meditating on these truths

• (00:00:00) - Podcast
• (00:01:01) - Common Counselor Issues
• (00:03:27) - Shame and Guilt
• (00:05:40) - Jimmy on Shame and Guilt
• (00:13:03) - Asian Americans Talk About Shame
• (00:14:00) - What Makes Confessment So Difficult
• (00:17:28) - The Shame of Our Own
• (00:21:14) - Reveal: Union With Christ
• (00:24:51) - The Shame of Being Human
• (00:27:54) - Other Principles for Struggling With Shame and Guilt
• (00:34:05) - Celebrations for Struggling With Confessment

In this episode, hosts Cathy and Caleb are joined by Chip Sweney, Executive Director and Pastor of Greater Atlanta Transformation at Perimeter, for an honest conversation about anxiety and depression. Chip vulnerably shares his journey of walking through intense anxiety and depression while serving in pastoral leadership and how God met him in the depths of his suffering. He reminds listeners that they are not alone and reminds us of Jesus’s gently and lowly heart for us.

Throughout the discussion, the three touch on the importance of trusted relationships, common lies believers can face in this season, and how Jesus gently speaks truth into those places. They also discuss topics like medication, how to build your own trusted support team, and practical wisdom for both those who are struggling and who want to be a safe place for others.

We pray this episode brings hope, reminding you that you are not alone and that suffering does not disqualify you from faith or leadership. If you are walking through anxiety or depression, we encourage you to reach out to a trusted counselor, church, or friend for support.

Additional Resources:

• Read Dane Ortlund’s books, Gentle and Lowly and The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels about You

• Read Chip’s article from Christianity Today, Pastor, You Don’t Have To Suffer Alone

• Click here to get in touch with a counselor today

• (00:00:00) - Podcast
• (00:00:48) - Perimeter Health CEO Chip Wagner on his role
• (00:02:01) - Senior Pastor at Perimeter Church: Celebrating 30 Years
• (00:03:53) - Chip Wilson on His Struggle with Anxiety and Depression
• (00:06:08) - How to help others with depression
• (00:13:45) - How the Body of Christ Comforted Me During My Afflictions
• (00:17:01) - Depression and anxiety: a spiritual issue
• (00:19:53) - Reclaiming the Life of Jesus
• (00:22:45) - Living on a Mission: Courage and Community
• (00:26:55) - What Would You Want People to Know About Struggling Wives
• (00:32:54) - Walking With God
• (00:34:17) - Paul in His Weakness
• (00:37:35) - The Next Step for People Struggling With Depression