In this episode, hosts Caleb and Cathy are joined by fellow Perimeter counselor Ashley Cable for a conversation about chronic illness. Drawing from Ashley’s own lived experience of walking through multiple ongoing illnesses, the three discuss what it looks like to cling to truth and trust God in circumstances that feel long, painful, and uncertain.

Throughout the conversation, they touch on applying the truths of Scripture through experiencing chronic pain, learning to lament with God in what Ashley calls her “bathroom floor days”. Walking through themes from Romans 8, they reflect on what it means to sit honestly with the Lord and redefine flourishing—not by our standards, but by God’s. They also offer practical reflections for those who suffer, as well as for helpers and loved ones who want to walk alongside them with wisdom and compassion.

We pray this episode brings comfort, hope, and a reminder that God is near in the waiting. If Ashley’s story resonates with you, we invite you to explore her blog post, Chronic Illness - Why His Presence Matters.

Additional Resources:

• Read Jeanne Harrison’s poem from her blog, Loving My Lot, entitled When Life Disappoints

• Read David Powlison’s book, God's Grace in Your Suffering

• Read John Piper’s article from Desiring God, God is Always Doing 10,000 Things In Your Life

• Read or listen to Esther Liu’s CCEF article, When God's Promises Feel Untrue

• (00:00:00) - Ashley Cable on the Perimeter Counseling Podcast
• (00:01:34) - Ashley's Story of Chronic Illness
• (00:09:25) - God's Love for Us
• (00:15:30) - "I Know He's Got a Purpose"
• (00:15:45) - Chronic illness and the message of Romans 8
• (00:25:18) - God's Presence on the Bathroom Floor

In this episode, hosts Caleb and Cathy are joined by Jimmy Kim, Executive Leader of Family Transformation at Perimeter, for a thoughtful discussion on guilt and shame. Jimmy speaks from his own background as a Korean American to shed light on how shame and grace can feel so difficult to walk through. Together, they explore how scripture and our union with Christ speaks so directly to our shame.

They address the difference between guilt and shame, the ways shame can grow when we hide the difficult parts of our stories, and how our culture or upbringing can impact our experience. They also discuss the feeling that God’s favor must be earned and why grace feels so difficult for some to embrace. Jimmy reminds us that there is no part of our story unknown to God and that nothing can separate us from His love.

We pray this episode offers encouragement and freedom, reminding you that Jesus is our perfect advocate who willingly took on and defeated our shame at the cross. If shame feels overwhelming or persistent in your life, we invite you to consider connecting with a counselor here.

Additional Resources:

• Read Tim Keller’s book, The Freedom of Self-Forgetfulness

• Read You’re Only Human by Kelly Kapic

• Read a blog from one of our counselors, George Vaughan, Replacing False Beliefs with the Truth

• Listen to Caleb and Jimmy’s song recommendations, “Rock of Ages (Solid Rock)” and “Christ the Sure and Steady Anchor”, to continue meditating on these truths

• (00:00:00) - Podcast
• (00:01:01) - Common Counselor Issues
• (00:03:27) - Shame and Guilt
• (00:05:40) - Jimmy on Shame and Guilt
• (00:13:03) - Asian Americans Talk About Shame
• (00:14:00) - What Makes Confessment So Difficult
• (00:17:28) - The Shame of Our Own
• (00:21:14) - Reveal: Union With Christ
• (00:24:51) - The Shame of Being Human
• (00:27:54) - Other Principles for Struggling With Shame and Guilt
• (00:34:05) - Celebrations for Struggling With Confessment

In this episode, hosts Cathy and Caleb are joined by Chip Sweney, Executive Director and Pastor of Greater Atlanta Transformation at Perimeter, for an honest conversation about anxiety and depression. Chip vulnerably shares his journey of walking through intense anxiety and depression while serving in pastoral leadership and how God met him in the depths of his suffering. He reminds listeners that they are not alone and reminds us of Jesus’s gently and lowly heart for us.

Throughout the discussion, the three touch on the importance of trusted relationships, common lies believers can face in this season, and how Jesus gently speaks truth into those places. They also discuss topics like medication, how to build your own trusted support team, and practical wisdom for both those who are struggling and who want to be a safe place for others.

We pray this episode brings hope, reminding you that you are not alone and that suffering does not disqualify you from faith or leadership. If you are walking through anxiety or depression, we encourage you to reach out to a trusted counselor, church, or friend for support.

Additional Resources:

• Read Dane Ortlund’s books, Gentle and Lowly and The Heart of Jesus: How He Really Feels about You

• Read Chip’s article from Christianity Today, Pastor, You Don’t Have To Suffer Alone

• Click here to get in touch with a counselor today

• (00:00:00) - Podcast
• (00:00:48) - Perimeter Health CEO Chip Wagner on his role
• (00:02:01) - Senior Pastor at Perimeter Church: Celebrating 30 Years
• (00:03:53) - Chip Wilson on His Struggle with Anxiety and Depression
• (00:06:08) - How to help others with depression
• (00:13:45) - How the Body of Christ Comforted Me During My Afflictions
• (00:17:01) - Depression and anxiety: a spiritual issue
• (00:19:53) - Reclaiming the Life of Jesus
• (00:22:45) - Living on a Mission: Courage and Community
• (00:26:55) - What Would You Want People to Know About Struggling Wives
• (00:32:54) - Walking With God
• (00:34:17) - Paul in His Weakness
• (00:37:35) - The Next Step for People Struggling With Depression

In this episode, host Cathy is joined by cohost Jonah Martinez, a fellow counselor at Perimeter Counseling, to talk about the joys and challenges of parenting. Drawing from Jonah’s background in student and family ministry and his work in family counseling, they approach parenting with humility, hope, and dependence on the Lord. Together, they explore what it looks like to parent not from a place of fear or control but rooted in their own identity as sons and daughters.

Throughout the conversation, Cathy and Jonah touch on topics such as releasing control and embracing discipleship and stewardship, grace and connection driven discipline, and most importantly what it looks like to daily remember our position as sheep before shepherding the flock God has given us.

We pray this episode brings encouragement and renewed hope to parents in every season. If you need more resources on parenting, we encourage you to explore the resources section for a full list of books mentioned throughout the episode.

Additional Resources:

• Read Tedd and Margy Tripp’s books, Instructing a Child’s Heart and Shepherding a Child’s Heart

• Read Johnathan Holmes’s book, Grounded In Grace

• Read Paul Tripp’s book, Parenting

• Read counselor Ashley Cable’s blog, When Fear Meets Faith: Parenting in the Tension

• For parenting older kids, read counselor Cathy Chang’s blogs, Getting To The Heart of Teens and Tweens Pt.1 and Pt.2

• (00:00:00) - Jonah Martinez on Perimeter Counseling Podcast
• (00:01:39) - 7 Rules for Raising Your Children in the Lord
• (00:04:11) - What is the Biblical Role of Parents?
• (00:08:19) - Wonders of the Child
• (00:14:49) - How to Discipline Our Child

In this episode, our hosts Caleb and Cathy are joined by fellow Perimeter counselor Karen Benater to talk about marriage—why it’s hard, why it’s worth it, and how God uses it to sanctify us. Together they unpack common false beliefs about marriage, inviting listeners to see it not as something to endure alone, but as a place where God sanctifies and grows us together.

Throughout the conversation, they discuss what it looks like view one another as image bearers of God, create intentional time for connection, healthy conflict management, and when it’s time to pursue counseling.

We pray this episode encourages you in your marriage and reminds you that help is available. If you’re in need of support, we invite you to reach out to Perimeter Counseling for marriage counseling and care here.

Additional Resources:

• Read Tim Keller’s book, Meaning of Marriage

• Read Steve Hoppe’s book, Talking as Teammates

• Read Bob Lepine’s book, Build a Stronger Marriage

• (00:00:00) - Podcast
• (00:00:27) - Everything There Is to Know About Marriage In 20 Minutes
• (00:01:05) - Ex-Marriage Expert on our Counseling
• (00:02:19) - The Statement That Marriage Is Hard
• (00:07:58) - Talking About Growing Intimacy in Marriage
• (00:10:05) - Do We Anticipate the Worst in Our Spouse?
• (00:11:48) - The False Narrative in Our Marriage
• (00:17:41) - James 4: Differences of Personality Are Not Sin
• (00:21:57) - Conflict Management and Its Impact
• (00:23:46) - How to Honor My Spouse in the Middle of Conflict
• (00:28:37) - Conflict in the Marriage
• (00:33:18) - Should Couples Pursue Marriage Counseling?
• (00:35:20) - A Taste of the 2020 Olympics

In this episode, our hosts Caleb and Cathy are joined alongside Perimeter staff members Jamie Voss and Jackie Lucas to discuss singleness, contentment, and trust. Throughout the conversation, Jamie and Jackie share their own journeys in singleness and the ways the Lord has met them, shaped their desires, and given purpose in their stories. God gives both singleness and marriage as a gift, so how can we honor Him through something that can feel like punishment or withholding?

Our hosts work to reframe scriptures like Psalm 37:4 and 1 Corinthians 7, discuss how we can trust God with our desires, as well as advice Jackie and Jamie would give to their married friends to better support the single people in their lives.

We pray this episode brings encouragement in your singleness, ultimately trusting that God gives each season as a gift to draw us closer to Himself.

Additional Resources:

• Read Danielle Treweek’s book, Single Ever After

• Read Paige Benton’s book, Singled Out For Good

• Read Sam Allbury’s book, 7 Myths About Singleness

• Visit the Single Minded Ministry for more resources

• (00:00:00) - Perimeter Counseling Podcast
• (00:00:50) - Can You Read My Handwriting?
• (00:01:33) - Three Singles on Their Journey to Love
• (00:04:02) - God's Love for Singles
• (00:08:25) - Enjoying the Tree of Contentment
• (00:12:35) - Singles on the Mission
• (00:15:43) - God's Gifts for Singleness
• (00:17:28) - Married People on Being Single and Spiritual Growth
• (00:22:10) - Jackie on Single Groups
• (00:26:43) - Singleness Is Good and Marriage Is Good
• (00:28:17) - Top 3 resources for singleness
• (00:30:21) - Wonders of the World

In this episode, Cathy, Karen, and Caleb continue their conversation on unwanted or negative emotions, offering a thoughtful framework to help process them. Emotions are a vital part of our humanity—purposefully designed by God. Even Jesus, who had perfect faith, experienced negative emotions. So, can we obey in the midst of them? And what does that look like in real life?

God’s call to obedience in difficult seasons is not that of a taskmaster, but of a loving Father who desires to draw us closer to Him.

Our prayer for you, as you listen to this episode, is that you may gain the confidence to believe that God is with you in the sadness, suffering, and grief you may be walking through.

Additional Resources:

• Read Karen Benater’s blog on Understanding Negative Emotions

• Read (or gift) Paul’s books, A Praying Life and A Loving Life

• Read Michael Emlet’s book, Saints, Sufferers, and Sinners: Loving Others as God Loves Us

• Read more about God’s heart for you in Dane Ortlund’s books Gentle and Lowly and The Heart of Jesus: How Jesus Really Feels About You

• Watch or listen to Dr. Crawford Loritt’s sermon from Perimeter Church entitled Christ Our Courage

• (00:00:05) - How to Deal with Unwanted Emotions
• (00:01:05) - Understanding Emotions in the Psalms
• (00:02:55) - Can You Obey God When You're Angry or Sad?
• (00:07:12) - Negative Emotions in the Life
• (00:13:52) - How to Draw Near to God
• (00:16:00) - Neuropsychology of Negative Emotions

In this episode of the Perimeter Counseling Podcast, Cathy, Karen, and Caleb come together to discuss the heart—or as the Bible describes it, the inner heart—and the emotions that come with it. Many Christians struggle with feelings of shame, failure, or guilt when experiencing negative emotions, fearing it reflects a lack of strong or mature faith.

However, as the counselors point out, emotions are not something to deny or suppress. In fact, we see these emotions throughout the pages of Scripture. The counselors offer insights on healthy ways to engage with and explore what lies behind these difficult feelings. Emotions are a gift from God, designed with purpose. As Christians, we can learn to navigate challenging emotions without falling into the false belief that they signify spiritual weakness.

We pray this episode encourages you and serves as a valuable resource. If you'd like to connect with a counselor, you can do so here.

Additional Resources:

• Learn more in Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy: Discovering the Grace of Lament by Mark Vroegop

• Read Alasdair Groves’s book, Untangling Emotions

• (00:00:00) - Podcast
• (00:00:27) - Heart of Counseling Podcast
• (00:01:17) - Untangling Emotions for Christians
• (00:06:25) - Stoic vs emotional absolutism
• (00:13:48) - How to Cope with Emotions