What does it take to lead when the mission is hard, the stakes are life-and-death, and nobody is watching?

In this extraordinary episode, Tucker Hamilton sits down with two of the most consequential figures in modern Air Force history — General (Ret.) David Goldfein, former Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force, and Dr. Heather Wilson, former Secretary of the Air Force and current President of UTEP — Air Force Academy classmates who reunited at the Pentagon 35 years after their cadet days to write Get Back Up: Lessons in Servant Leadership.

From Goldfein's F-16 shoot-down over Serbia to Wilson's battles on Capitol Hill and in the halls of the Pentagon, they have lived the kind of leadership not taught in classrooms — the kind forged in adversity, shaped by humility, and proven under pressure.

In this conversation, they unpack what servant leadership actually looks like when the cost is real, why the most powerful leaders are the ones who put others first, and what the next generation of leaders needs to hear right now.

The AV-8B Harrier is one of the most demanding, iconic, and battle-proven aircraft in military aviation history. Now, as the Harrier era draws to a close, one squadron remains to carry the torch: VMA-223, the Great American Bulldogs.

In this episode, Cinco sits down with the commanding officer (Traper) and executive officer (Porky) of the last AV-8B Harrier squadron to talk about the jet, the mission, the culture, and what it means to write the final chapter of an extraordinary community. This is a conversation about legacy, leadership, and the kind of airplane that shaped the aviators who flew it.

With the successful launch of Artemis II and NASA's return to the moon six decades later, we thought this a good time to dust off episode 189 from April 2024 featuring Reid "Tonto" Wiseman, mission commander.

Godspeed, astronauts!