Belonging might get you on the team, but if burnout is a systems problem, then mattering is a systems solution. Cait sits down with Zach Mercurio, PhD, author of The Power of Mattering, to examine why engagement continues to decline even in organizations investing heavily in culture initiatives. If burnout is a systems problem, then addressing workplace burnout requires more than resilience training. It requires redesigning how leaders show up in everyday interactions.

Zach breaks down the difference between belonging, inclusion, and mattering. Belonging is being welcomed. Inclusion is being invited to participate. Mattering is knowing you are significant and needed. That experience is built moment by moment when leaders notice, affirm, and show people how their contributions make a measurable difference. These small interactions directly influence organizational health and shape the employee experience.

Cait brings a biological lens to the conversation, exploring how chronic workplace stress and cortisol are connected to feeling unseen or replaceable. Research shows that when people feel they matter, stress markers decrease and exhaustion drops. That insight reframes the structural causes of burnout. This is not just about mindset alone but systems, expectations, and leadership behavior.

The conversation also addresses leadership burnout. Managers are overloaded with KPIs, administrative demands, and hybrid communication that erodes psychological safety at work. When leaders rush, care disappears and hurry replaces presence, burnout culture takes root. If burnout is a systems problem, then culture is built or broken in the accumulation of daily interactions.

You will get a useful framework based on three main actions which are noticing, affirming, and needing. You can use these leadership skills on a larger scale to improve the health of your organization, reduce burnout at work, and make the employee experience better without starting a new project.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Zach Mercurio, PhD, on The Power of Mattering at Work

02:37 Belonging vs Inclusion vs Mattering

06:39 What Makes Work Meaningful

09:43 Mattering and Burnout

11:48 The Biology of Feeling Valued

20:57 How to Build Trust With Check-ins That Feel Authentic

23:14 Notice, Affirm, Need: Leadership Behaviors That Reduce Burnout

28:47 Why Hurrying Kills Care

42:13 The Myth of Being Replaceable

48:12 One Simple Question That Helps People Feel They Matter

Links

Mind–Body Skills Groups for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder in Palestinian Adults in Gaza

Connect with Zach Mercurio:

Visit Zach's Website

Follow Zach on Instagram

Connect with Zach on LinkedIn

The Power of Mattering

Cait Donovan is a keynote speaker, author, and host of FRIED: The Burnout Podcast, specializing in burnout, mismatch, and sustainable performance at work. She partners with corporate leaders, teams, and professional associations through keynotes, workshops, and leadership sessions that treat burnout as data, not failure, to help organizations reduce burnout without blame or shame and build healthier, high performing cultures.

To bring Cait to your organization or event, book an inquiry call here.

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Burnout does not get fixed by waiting for the workplace to change and it does not get solved by ignoring the biology of chronic stress either. Cait Donovan challenges the growing resistance to mindfulness in workplace and corporate wellness by asking a more honest question: what if the tools people dismiss as basic are misunderstood rather than ineffective?

Drawing on research from war zones, medical training programs, and high-stress professional environments, the conversation reframes mindfulness as a form of burnout prevention grounded in trauma and PTSD science. When practices reduce symptoms in active conflict zones, it raises an uncomfortable but important question about what they might offer people living with constant workplace stress.

At the center of the discussion is the nervous system. Chronic stress creates a dysregulated nervous system that stays locked in fight or flight, reshaping the brain in the same way PTSD does. Through the lens of nervous system regulation, the vagus nerve, and polyvagal theory, burnout is positioned as a physiological pattern rather than a failure of willpower or mindset. The episode pushes back on the idea that burnout belongs only to systems and leadership, without minimizing real workplace harm. Research shows that choosing a small number of practices that truly fit can restore clarity and agency over time, giving people the internal stability needed to decide what actually needs to change next.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Workplace Wellness, Burnout, and Chronic Stress

02:46 Why Practical Stress Management Matters at Work

06:05 How Mind-Body Skills Support Burnout Recovery and PTSD

09:08 Reclaiming Personal Agency in Burnout Prevention

Links

James Gordon's episode on Transforming Trauma

Cait Donovan is a keynote speaker, author, and host of FRIED: The Burnout Podcast, specializing in burnout, mismatch, and sustainable performance at work. She partners with corporate leaders, teams, and professional associations through keynotes, workshops, and leadership sessions that treat burnout as data, not failure, to help organizations reduce burnout without blame or shame and build healthier, high performing cultures.

To bring Cait to your organization or event, book an inquiry call here.

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Part of burnout recovery is learning when to respond to what your body and life are telling you, even when that response brings some discomfort.

In this episode, Cait and Sarah talk openly about a shift in how they work together and what’s ahead for FRIED. As their roles and priorities have evolved, Sarah is stepping back and Cait is focusing her work more fully on leadership, organizational, and systems-level burnout.

Cait shares how she came to see that her work is strongest when she is creating change at a broader level, working with leaders, teams, and organizations. Sarah reflects on realizing that supporting others through burnout had taken the place of rebuilding her own life, and what became clear once she chose to redirect her energy back toward herself.

The conversation reflects the longer arc of burnout recovery. It speaks to how clarity often comes later than expected, how rebuilding tends to happen in stages, and how fit becomes clearer through experience rather than planning. What Cait and Sarah describe will feel familiar to anyone who has had to respond to a change they did not anticipate but ultimately knew they could not ignore.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Conscious Business Uncoupling and Burnout Recovery Alignment

03:29 Why Burn Bold Shifted From Individual Burnout Recovery to Workplace Burnout

04:28 The Values Bridge Assessment and How It Exposes Misalignment

08:29 Codependency in Helping Roles and Burnout From Borrowed Purpose

11:18 Ending a Business Partnership Without Blame or Failure

18:59 Why You Cannot Force Alignment Through Planning Alone

28:34 Why Transitions Feel So Hard According to Chinese Medicine

31:43 Workplace Burnout vs Misalignment and Why Not Everything Is Toxic

38:16 Using Your Voice and Finding the Work That Fits

42:34 Why Burnout Recovery Still Requires Support and Guidance

Links

Book Cait to Speak at your Event or Org

Schedule a Speaking Inquiry with Cait

Cait Donovan is a keynote speaker, author, and host of FRIED: The Burnout Podcast, specializing in burnout, mis/match, and sustainable performance at work. She partners with corporate leaders, teams, and professional associations through keynotes, workshops, and leadership sessions that treat burnout as data, not failure, to help organizations reduce burnout without blame or shame and build healthier, high performing cultures.

To bring Cait to your organization or event, book an inquiry call here: https://bit.ly/bookcait

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Burnout recovery does not start with fixing yourself. It starts with understanding job fit, burnout at work, and whether there is a true values match between who you are and what your work and life demand.

Cait Donovan returns with a #straightfromcait episode that marks a turning point in how she thinks about burnout and in the writing of her next book. After years of explaining burnout as a complex web shaped by childhood, culture, health, personality, and work, she hits a wall. Information alone does not change behavior. What people need is a clearer way to see why burnout keeps showing up and what actually drives it beneath the surface.

That insight leads to a powerful reframe. Burnout at work is often the result of poor job fit and ongoing misalignment, not personal weakness or bad leadership. Cait unpacks how mismatches around autonomy, expectations, and success quietly drain energy over time. More freedom does not always help. Promotion does not always equal growth. What happens when your role conflicts with your values or asks for something you cannot sustain? And how often do we accept those mismatches without ever questioning them?

This episode also sets the direction for what comes next on the podcast. Cait shares how future conversations will focus on creating better alignment through values match, mattering, hope, and leadership at work. The invitation is simple and challenging. What would change if fit mattered as much as performance? And how much burnout could be prevented if mismatch was addressed before it turned into exhaustion?

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Burnout as a Mismatch Problem

02:29 Job Fit, Autonomy, and Burnout at Work

04:47 Values Match and Redefining Success

05:43 How Better Alignment Reduces Burnout

Links

Book Cait to Speak at your Event or Org

Schedule a Speaking Inquiry with Cait

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

You don’t have to carry burnout alone. The right support can help you breathe again—start here: https://caitdonovan.com/coaching

Burnout is less a breaking point than a slow unravelling of identity and the seven messy phases high achievers cycle through on the way back to themselves.

We’re revisiting a conversation with Dr. Mandy Lehto that still holds relevance for anyone who has pushed past their limits and felt the ground shift beneath them. Mandy and Cait talk through burnout as a gradual process shaped by denial, urgency, over-efforting, and grief, rather than a single moment of collapse. Mandy’s “seven-ish” buckets offer language for patterns many high achievers recognize but rarely name. When the strategies that once drove success stop working, how do you begin to make sense of what comes next?

Burnout is framed here as an identity reckoning rather than a problem to fix or outwork. It often surfaces when performance quietly replaces self-trust and effort becomes the main source of worth. What happens when pushing harder no longer brings clarity or relief? What does it ask of you when the body stops cooperating with the plan?

The episode invites a different relationship with healing. One that allows uncertainty, grief, and slowness to exist without turning them into another project. Wholeness does not arrive as polish or resolution. It shows up through honesty, embodiment, and the growing ability to stop performing for approval. For anyone navigating the space between who they were trained to be and who they are becoming, this episode offers perspective, language, and permission to stay with the process.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 The Seven Phases of Burnout Recovery for High Achievers

01:35 Denial and the Push-Harder Pattern That Starts the Slide

06:38 Triage Mode and Why Your Worth Can Feel Tied to Productivity

15:19 Reluctant Surrender and the Grief of Losing Your Old Identity

19:10 The Humbling and What Acceptance Actually Looks Like

30:31 Achievement Addiction, Dopamine, and the Crash After Big Wins

39:02 Chutes and Ladders and Practicing Self-Acceptance in Real Life

42:28 Wholeness Equals Whole Mess and Reclaiming Your Energy

47:14 When Support Helps Most and Why Recovery Becomes an Inside Job

If today’s episode sparked ideas for your team, Cait is available for keynotes, workshops, and leadership sessions. Learn more here: https://caitdonovan.as.me/inquire

Connect with Mandy Lehto:

Visit Mandy's Website

Follow Mandy on Instagram

Connect with Mandy on LinkedIn

Connect with Cait:

Initial Call with Cait

You don’t have to carry burnout alone. The right support can help you breathe again—start here: https://caitdonovan.com/coaching

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

What if you could step into a room filled with the people who hold the keys to the big stages, the book deals, and the most powerful platforms for your voice? The Gateway Gathering Pitch Fest is a visibility accelerator for thought-leaders. Whether you’re ready to pitch or just want to discover what’s possible, join us January 13 – 15. Visit: https://bit.ly/friedgateway

Why do millennials seem more exhausted than everyone else, and what does that say about the world they came of age in? Cait Donovan and Tess Brigham challenge the idea that burnout is caused by laziness, entitlement, or bad time management and instead look at the conditions that shaped an entire generation’s relationship to work, money, and ambition.

Millennials were taught to chase fulfillment through work while absorbing the expectation of constant availability, rising debt, and shrinking financial stability. That combination created a version of success that looked good on paper but often felt unsustainable in real life. Burnout, in this light, reads less like a personal breakdown and more like a rational response to a system that never powered down.

The conversation also reframes generational tension as misunderstanding rather than failure. Gen Z’s boundaries and openness around mental health are not rejections of effort. They are adaptations shaped by watching what relentless grind actually costs. What looks like resistance may be awareness.

This episode asks a quieter but harder question: what happens when the path you committed to no longer fits who you are or the life you want? Burnout becomes an invitation to reassess rather than a reason for shame. Less judgment, more curiosity, and the courage to question stories about success that were never designed to hold up under the weight they now carry.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Why Burnout Is a Generational Issue, Not a Personal Failure

01:15 Tess Brigham on Her Quarter-Life Crisis and Early Burnout

09:25 Why Millennials Experience Burnout Differently Than Other Generations

19:26 Student Debt, Financial Pressure, and the Burnout Equation

30:11 Mental Health, Boundaries, and What Gen Z Is Doing Differently

39:03 When Burnout Signals It’s Time to Reassess Your Path

Connect with Tess Brigham:

Visit Tess' Website

Follow Tess on Instagram

Connect with Tess on LinkedIn

Connect with Cait:

Initial Call with Cait

Burnout Recovery works better with support. UNFRIED is our small group (6 people max!) coaching program to help guide you through your recovery. Find out more here: http://bit.ly/unfried

If this episode resonated and you’re not sure where to go next, the FRIED Episode Finder can guide you to the next right listen: https://bit.ly/friedfinder

What if you could step into a room filled with the people who hold the keys to the big stages, the book deals, and the most powerful platforms for your voice? The Gateway Gathering Pitch Fest is a visibility accelerator for thought-leaders. Whether you’re ready to pitch or just want to discover what’s possible, join us January 13 – 15. Visit: https://bit.ly/friedgateway

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

What if you could step into a room filled with the people who hold the keys to the big stages, the book deals, and the most powerful platforms for your voice? The Gateway Gathering Pitch Fest is a visibility accelerator for thought-leaders. Whether you’re ready to pitch or just want to discover what’s possible, join us January 13 – 15. Visit https://bit.ly/friedgateway

Stress pushes high-achieving women toward alcohol and alcohol quietly erodes sleep emotional stability and clarity.

Cait Donovan welcomes back Casey McGuire Davidson, host of the Hello Someday podcast and a trusted voice for sober-curious women, to examine a pattern many women experience without fully naming. Alcohol is often positioned as relief, reward, and sophistication, yet over time it can leave women feeling more anxious, more reactive, and less resilient in their daily lives.

Rather than treating drinking as a moral issue or a personal failure, the focus stays on information and awareness. How does alcohol affect sleep and emotional regulation? What shifts when hormones change in midlife? How much of what feels like stress, burnout, or anxiety might be amplified by something we were told would help? Removing alcohol, even briefly, becomes a way to see your real baseline and understand what your body and nervous system are actually asking for.

This episode is an invitation to experiment with curiosity instead of judgment. What might you learn about yourself if you stopped numbing for a month? What becomes possible when rest feels deeper, moods feel steadier, and choices feel more conscious? Dry January is framed less as a challenge and more as a chance to gather clarity and decide what truly supports the life you are building.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Meet Casey McGuire Davidson

02:00 How Stress and Alcohol Reinforce Each Other

06:00 Alcohol’s Impact on Sleep, Anxiety, and Emotional Regulation

18:05 Perimenopause, Hormones, and Changing Alcohol Tolerance

23:55 A Practical and Sustainable Approach to Dry January

Connect with Casey McGuire Davidson:

Casey’s Website

Follow Casey on Instagram

Connect with Casey on LinkedIn

Get The Free 30-Day Sober Guide To Quitting Drinking

Hire Cait to Speak:

Initial Call with Cait

If you’re tired and can’t quite name why, this is a good place to start. Cait’s free Core Values guide helps you figure out what’s draining you and what’s worth protecting. Grab it here: https://bit.ly/corevaluesfreebie

What if you could step into a room filled with the people who hold the keys to the big stages, the book deals, and the most powerful platforms for your voice? The Gateway Gathering Pitch Fest is a visibility accelerator for thought-leaders. Whether you’re ready to pitch or just want to discover what’s possible, join us January 13 – 15. Visit https://bit.ly/friedgateway

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Winter fear can feel like burnout recovery slipping away but this episode reframes fear and depletion as a natural part of winter rather than a sign of winter burnout or failure.

In this #sarahshares episode, Sarah Vosen speaks directly to the quiet panic that surfaces when low energy and fear return during the darkest part of the year. When light fades and energy pulls inward, burnout recovery can feel fragile. Fear often replaces simple exhaustion, especially when the nervous system is already depleted. Sarah offers a grounding reframe. That fear is not proof you are backsliding. It is information. Winter exposes depletion more clearly, which can feel unsettling, but it also invites a different response.

Instead of pushing through or overriding low energy, the conversation centers on safety, rest, and conservation. What does safety actually feel like in your body? What helps you settle when fear is loud and rest feels out of reach? Winter is not asking for progress or productivity. It is asking for care, containment, and trust that restoration often begins when you stop fighting the dark.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Embracing Winter's Wisdom

05:06 Understanding Fear in Winter

09:47 Seeking Safety and Self-Care

17:10 Navigating Hibernation and Restoration

Related episodes you might want to listen to next:

Irrational Fears are a Sign of Depletion

Burnout and Sleep

Dig deeper:

Burnout isn’t a personal failure or a lack of resilience. It’s a signal that something in the system, expectations, roles, pace, or support, is out of alignment. Conversations like this one help surface the human experience of burnout, while the broader work continues to explore how organizations can respond more intelligently and sustainably.

To explore burnout, leadership, and sustainable performance through a workplace and organizational lens, connect with Cait Donovan: https://bit.ly/bookcait

Learn more about Cait’s speaking work:

https://www.caitdonovan.com/speaking

Short on time? Watch this 3-minute overview:

https://bit.ly/caitdreel2025

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm