BRG Director Jason Kuckkan and Moyo LaBode, former chief merchandising officer at Leslie's Pools, discuss the concept of personal agency and career stemming from Dr. Peter Attia's book Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity. They reflect on how intentional decision-making and ownership of one's health, choices, and career shape meaningful professional growth. Their conversation highlights the importance and value of self-awareness, curiosity, and reverse mentorship as critical components in evolving leadership.

In this episode, BRG Associate Director Nancy Cherashore and Natalia Zibibbo, counsel at Freshfields, discuss leadership by highlighting Watership Down's themes of empathy, trust, and adaptability. They share personal stories about returning from maternity leave, leading teams across different countries, and taking on leadership roles early in their careers. Their conversation emphasizes the importance of empowering others, embracing a growth mindset, and leading with both strategy and compassion.

BRG Director Jean-Gabriel Despeyroux and Mathilde Saltiel, a partner at Latham & Watkins LLP, discuss the evolving nature of leadership through personal experience and insights drawn from the TV series New Amsterdam. They highlight the importance of humility, emotional intelligence, trust, and a collaborative, service-driven mindset encapsulated in the question, "How can I help?" Their conversation moves into how leadership develops early in one's career, shaped by mentorship and self-awareness. Mathilde emphasizes that openly sharing the realities of balancing parenthood and leadership can be a powerful source of inspiration for the next generation of professionals.

Selected Transcript Summary

[0:56]
Jean-Gabriel introduces Mathilde. He praising her leadership style, marked by kindness and high standards, and notes their shared professional background in competition law. They highlight the impact of multicultural careers. Mathilde explains why leadership is vital today. She emphasizes the increasing difficulty of retaining talent and notes that leadership styles must evolve to resonate with new generations of professionals.

[5:05]
They introduce the television show New Amsterdam as the frame of the conversation. Mathilde shares why the show resonates, highlighting its focus on teamwork, systemic change, and patient-centered values. Mathilde draws parallels between medicine and law, noting the importance of cross-disciplinary teamwork and staying grounded under pressure. She reflects on the value of France's public healthcare in contrast to challenges portrayed in the US system.

[10:22]
Mathilde emphasizes the leadership mantra "How can I help?," applying it to client service, team support, and crisis management. She links emotional intelligence and the need for empathy to effective leadership. They stress the importance of valuing each team member, from interns to senior partners, and maintaining trust with clients as the foundation of successful legal advice.

[16:07]
Mathilde reflects on her personal leadership journey, describing her gradual growth in self-confidence rather than a single pivotal moment. She advocates for assuming leadership behaviors ahead of formal promotions.

[18:09]

Mathilde identifies one of her toughest challenges as delivering hard feedback when professional fit may be lacking. These situations require honesty and listening, even when the outcomes can be difficult.

[19:07]
They challenge the misconception that leadership requires authoritarianism. Mathilde warns against fear-based leadership, noting its destructive impact on team morale and retention. They also discuss how leadership must evolve to focus on humility, flexibility, and leading by example over rigid hierarchies and urgency-based management.

[23:48]
Mathilde offers advice to early career professionals: shaping who you are as a leader begins from day one. Good management of peers and interns leaves lasting impressions that influence long-term career paths.

[25:03]
Jean-Gabriel brings up parenting and leadership. Mathilde shares her experience as a mother of two and stresses the importance of role models, especially for women in law balancing parenthood and professional ambition. Mathilde describes the initial anxiety around parenting in big law and how she overcame it through organization and perspective. She encourages open dialogue about challenges and sharing strategies among peers.

[27:35]
Mathilde reflects on the value of taking time to think about the type of leader one wants to be. She hopes the conversation sparks further discussion and inspires emerging leaders.

Li Li, a director at BRG, and Michelle Bock, a partner at Squire Patton Boggs, reflect on their global career journeys and explore cultural and professional complexities of international leadership. Through personal stories of growth, mentorship, and cross-border collaboration, they share key lessons on next-generation leadership, emphasizing the power of mutual respect, inclusion, and adaptability in building high-performing, global teams.

BRG Director Crosby MacDonald and Hugh Meighen, a partner at Borden Ladner Gervais LLP, reflect on the leadership qualities of Robert F. Kennedy, drawing from The Last Campaign by Thurston Clarke. They explore how empathy, emotional intelligence, and purposeful conviction shaped Kennedy's ability to build trust and lead effectively. They emphasize the value of balancing humility with confidence, listening before reacting, and hearing different perspectives to foster deeper dialogue, stronger collaboration, and more impactful leadership.

BRG Director Garrett Mann sits down with Shannon Cermak, Vice President, Ambulatory at Loyola Medicine, to discuss her unique journey from teacher to healthcare executive, highlighting how her background in education has shaped a people-centered leadership style rooted in mission-driven purpose. Their conversation evolves into the importance of trust, empathy, and kindness in effective leadership while offering insights on team engagement, balancing innovation with accountability, and embracing discomfort as a catalyst for growth and unexpected opportunity.

BRG's Nelida Abi Saab and Lucy Preston, a senior associate at Mantle Law, delve into Adam Grant's Think Again, using its themes of open-mindedness, effective communication, and constructive dialogue as a lens to reflect on their own leadership journeys and the distinction between managing and truly leading. They highlight the importance of fostering respectful environments that encourage feedback and innovation, emphasizing that authentic leadership is rooted in adaptability, humility, and the courage to uplift others while continually challenging oneself.

Selected Transcript Summary

[0:39]
Nelida and Lucy share how they met at a networking event three years prior, bonding over running. They reflect on leadership, agreeing that it is not the exclusive domain of partners or CEOs—it can start from the first day in any role. Lucy explains that leadership begins when you enter a situation and is separate from seniority or technical skill.

[1:33]
They discuss the difference between a team member, manager, and leader. Lucy emphasizes that success in leadership involves mastering all three roles. She shares that leadership has been on her mind since entering law and recommends Adam Grant's book Think Again, which emphasizes persuasion through empathy and finding common ground.

[4:08]
Lucy applies lessons from Think Again to leadership and the value of starting with shared understanding and curiosity to resolve conflicts. She stresses that narrowing disagreements builds trust and empowerment in teams. She also references Brene Brown's guidance on giving feedback that is "true, necessary, and kind."

[8:43]
Nelida agrees and draws on the book Getting to Yes, relating her experience of separating people from problems to develop collaborative solutions. She highlights the dangers of tunnel vision and unconscious bias, noting that strong leadership requires staying open to new facts and perspectives.

[10:50]
Lucy introduces the acronym FAIL (First Attempt In Learning), encouraging a mindset that embraces mistakes as opportunities. She calls for objectivity and detachment from personal stakes in decisions, noting the importance of adapting to new information rather than sticking to prior conclusions.

[15:43]
They discuss flawed assumptions about leadership, particularly the belief that more experience always equates to better leadership. Lucy critiques legal hierarchies and the habit of dismissing junior perspectives. Nelida adds that technical skills alone are insufficient for leadership and that promotions should consider emotional intelligence and people management.

[16:52]
Nelida and Lucy discuss technical competence versus leadership capability and why being a good performer may not translate to a good leader. Lucy highlights a mentor who exemplified both and how constructive conflict was encouraged in that relationship. Nelida shares her own story of being empowered by a mentor who gave her autonomy early in her career and allowed her to put her skills into action.

[23:37]
Nelida and Lucy debunk the myth that charisma is a prerequisite for leadership. Nelida argues that true leadership is grounded in integrity, authenticity, and trust. She rejects the "fake it till you make it" mindset, advocating instead for genuine accountability.

[24:58]
Lucy agrees and highlights the importance of leaders admitting when they are wrong. She critiques societal norms that discourage vulnerability in leadership, affirming that titles and confidence do not inherently make someone a leader.

[27:48]
Lucy adds that challenges from within a team should be seen as signs of commitment and engagement, not as threats. She shares her own experience of raising issues respectfully in meetings and how such behavior models constructive dissent for junior colleagues.

[29:09]
They transition to defining essential leadership qualities. Nelida underscores the need for openness to new ideas and adaptability, particularly in fast-changing environments. Lucy adds curiosity, empathy, resilience, not being afraid to fail, and the importance of rejecting tradition for tradition's sake.