This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus sits down with Loretta J. Ross — activist, MacArthur Fellow, Smith College professor, and one of the most clear-eyed movement builders of the last five decades — to talk about her new book, Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel.

The conversation couldn't be more timely. With Democrats tearing each other apart in the run-up to the midterms and the left running on indignant anger, Ross offers something rarer and more useful than a hot take. From deprogramming white supremacists to teaching convicted rapists feminist principles, she's spent her career finding ways to reach people in order to build coalitions that win. Together, she and Marcus dig into the seductive pull of call-out culture, why purity politics is losing us elections we should be winning, and what it actually looks like to hold people accountable — with compassion, with strategy, and without burning your coalition to the ground.

Along the way, Ross gives us a pragmatic roadmap for winning, using the "truth, time, evidence and history" we already have on our side. It's a recipe for justice borne from a lifetime of hard-won wisdom, and it couldn't be more necessary for the moment we're in.

NOTE: this episode refers to sexual assault and rape. Please take care while listening.

Mentioned in the episode:

Trump bday party | Blanche canceled crybaby fund | WaPost Irizarry | Pulte BB&B conspiracy theories | Bedbugs invade administration | Charles Douglas III episode | Loretta Ross | Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You'd Rather Cancel | 13th (2016) | Pancreatic cancer treatment breakthrough | The Sheltering Sky

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora spiral from Mark Zuckerberg's $300 million "Launch Pad" yacht docking in Seattle, conveniently timed with 1,400 local layoffs, into a searching, deeply human conversation with housing advocate and legislative candidate Jaelynn Scott. Together, they unpack trans safety, housing justice, coalition-building, and what it means to practice 'grace in the streets' while communities face escalating political attacks. Along the way, Jaelynn offers a powerful vision of leadership rooted not in optics or ambition, but in care, urgency, and the belief that government should actually protect the people most vulnerable to harm. This episode offers all of us a view of what it looks like to actually govern like people's lives matter.

Mentioned in the episode:

Zuckerberg's dumb yacht | Careless People | The Social Network (2010) | US justice department launches criminal investigation into Trump accuser E Jean Carroll | City of Seattle poised to declare a civil emergency for LGBTQIA+ refugees fleeing red states | No New Youth Jail | Estelita's Library | Fannie Lou Hamer | Juniper Blessing | Graystar | Republicans in South Carolina defy Trump to reject voting map changes | The Needling: Millionaires Tax Erases Only Advantage of Living in Sad, Barren Wasteland

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with worker-owner Mark Paschal of Seattle co-ops Jude's Old Town and Rosette for a conversation about what happens when workers stop asking capitalism for dignity and start building alternatives themselves. Between billionaire slush funds, Jeff Bezos embarrassment, and the slow collapse of the "customer is always right" economy, Mark lays out a radically practical vision of worker power, mutual aid, and community-owned futures: one shared meal, one workplace, and one neighborhood at a time.

Mentioned in the episode:

Jude's | Rosette | REI Union | Dean Spade episode | The Boys | NAACP Boycott |

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.