Is email prospecting real, or just a comfortable fantasy? In this sales topics conversation, Ed Marsh and Derek Baer of Kurlan & Associates argue that the phone is still the most reliable way to start a B2B sales conversation. They also cover five topics every sales leader should be thinking about.

Derek describes a recent test: a BDR sent 3,000 personalized video emails using Derek’s own voice. Not one person replied. Derek says he has never booked a meeting from a cold email. His point is that a human voice is hard to ignore and an email is easy to delete. He also explains why phone technique matters so much, and why a 22-year-old reading a script to a Fortune 100 executive makes people conclude that “the phones don’t work.”

In this episode:

• How hard should salespeople work? Derek’s view is “whatever it takes,” with a practical limit before burnout. He also talks about the heavy lift of the first six months in a new role. Ed tells the story of a 24-year Army special operations veteran who became the top BDR on his team within a quarter.
• Intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation. Not every rep is coin-operated. Ed and Derek discuss why intrinsically motivated reps may sandbag once they hit quota, and what that means for comp plans and accelerators.
• Should managers know reps’ personal financial goals? Why that conversation is about motivation, not intrusion.
• Comp during the ramp. In long sales cycles, they suggest rewarding things a new rep can control in the first 90 days: meetings, conversations, and real opportunities with real decision makers.
• Email prospecting vs. the phone. Derek’s multi-touch sequence: a LinkedIn connection request before the first call, short voicemails, brief “call me back” emails, and about 12 touches with the spacing getting tighter over time. Plus a case for weekend calls to hard-to-reach executives.
• Pipeline hygiene. How long a deal can sit with no activity before it’s dead, why stale deals inflate forecasts, and how “no decision” (The JOLT Effect) kills 40 to 60 percent of deals.
• Closing thought: Be patient, and be kind, including to yourself.

Key takeaway:
“If you want to make more money, work harder. Make the calls. Do the work.”

Mentioned in this episode:

• The JOLT Effect by Matthew Dixon and Ted McKenna
• Baseline Selling by Dave Kurlan

Connect with Derek Baer:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-baer-68a234b9/

Connect with Ed Marsh:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardbmarsh/
• Ed Marsh Consulting: https://www.edmarshconsulting.com/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EdMarsh
• X/Twitter: https://x.com/edbmarsh

If you’re serious about industrial growth, subscribe, leave a review, and visit edmarshconsulting.com to keep the conversation going.

Why do so many industrial companies still sell like it's 2005, while B2B software has built a whole cookbook of go-to-market recipes? Ed Marsh sits down with Brian C. Reed, Chief Market Officer at Corsha, to explore where tech marketing and sales meet traditional industrials. Brian has spent decades in software and cybersecurity, and now helps manufacturers secure the machines, robotics and physical AI that power modern production lines.

They cover why communities beat SEO content farms, how to tell stories that stick, what physical AI means for the plant floor (and its security risks), how AI is changing sales, and how a mid-market manufacturer should build a GTM team from scratch. Brian closes with a challenge: what if you spent 2–3% more of your capital budget on professional go-to-market instead of that next quarter-million-dollar machine?

In this episode:

• Why being part of peer communities (Pavilion, TMA, CMO Coffee Talk) makes you better at building communities for your customers
• Lessons from "unreasonable hospitality" and why service beats selling
• Harry the Hair-on-Fire, Paul the Proactive Planner, and Carla the Compliance person: three buyer personas found in almost every market
• Mapping the "communities of influence" around your ICP, and why you should join existing communities rather than build your own
• How to find worthwhile communities when engineers mostly lurk
• Information fragmentation: why the 20-page white paper is dead and snackable content wins
• Making your content GPT-friendly so AI tools recommend you
• From Duke BME/EE to CMO: learning the business side after a startup failed for lack of sales and marketing
• Storytelling as the brain's native format, with the OT ransomware story as an example
• Using AI as a writing and ideation companion without producing "AI slop"
• What physical AI is and how it will transform inspection and quality in manufacturing
• The security downside: constraints, fail-safes, and IT/OT/cloud convergence
• How AI is reshaping sales, and what makes the best salespeople (empathy, team sports, hospitality backgrounds)
• Marketing vs. sales: why you can't have a one-sided coin
• Specialization vs. full-cycle sellers, SDRs, and high-low selling
• Building a GTM team from scratch for a mid-market industrial manufacturer
• Defining go-to-market enablement: people, process, technology and content
• Why tech marketers should consider a move to industrials

Links:

• Brian C. Reed on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briancreed
• Corsha: https://corsha.com
• Email Brian: brian@corsha.com
• Ed Marsh Consulting: https://edmarshconsulting.com

Mentioned in this episode:

• Pavilion (and the Pavilion podcast)
• Technology Marketing Alliance (TMA)
• CMO Coffee Talk
• Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
• StoryBrand
• SANS Institute
• ICS Village at DEF CON
• Mike Holcomb (OT security educator)
• OWASP
• All Day DevOps
• Dragos
• ARM Institute
• GridRaster
• John Barrows
• April Dunford
• Podcasts: Nerd Talking Good, StoryBrand, Prof G, CMO Confidential, Hard Fork

If you enjoyed this episode, please like, share, comment and subscribe, and pass it along to someone in your industrial network who'd find these ideas useful.

Joe Angel — Executive Vice President of Industry Outreach for PMMI (The Association for Packaging and Processing Technologies), founder of Packaging World magazine, and a true legend in the packaging industry — joins Ed Marsh to unpack the full arc of B2B media, from bingo cards to AI.

Ed and Joe cover:

• Why PR and traditional media are becoming relevant again as SEO and organic search decline
• The early days of launching Packaging World in 1993–94, and how print media measured leads before the internet
• How the 2009 recession (not digital disruption) forced Summit Media to rethink its business — and led to the birth of digital lead-gen tools like landing pages
• Why PMMI ultimately acquired Summit Media Group in 2014, and what "always-on" content means for trade shows@james
• How manufacturers misuse (or underuse) verified audience data — and what smart companies do differently
• Blending print, digital, and events: the "Game Plan" personalized show-floor guide as a case study in integration
• Whether AI can replace editors — and the real risk Joe sees: losing decades of tacit engineering knowledge as experienced workers retire
• Why in-person relationships and trade shows still matter, even in an AI-driven world
• Joe's advice for treating marketing as an investment, not an expense

Whether you're in packaging, industrial manufacturing, or B2B marketing more broadly, this conversation is a masterclass in how media strategy has evolved — and where it's headed next.

Reach out to Joe directly via PMMI, or stop by the PMMI booth at the next PACK EXPO show.

• Joe's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeangel/

Like, share, comment, and subscribe to the Industrial Growth Institute podcast for more conversations on growth, marketing, and strategy in industrial and middle-market businesses.

#B2BMarketing #TradeShows #PackagingIndustry #IndustrialMarketing #PMMI #PackagingWorld #IndustrialGrowthInstitute