What happens when the numbers we use to define success in school don’t actually measure what matters most?

Jeremy Mikla and David Berner are joined by education advocate, author, filmmaker, and former venture capitalist Ted Dintersmith for a provocative conversation about what schools prioritize—and what students actually need for life beyond the classroom.

Drawing from his book Aftermath, Ted challenges the continued emphasis on math procedures that technology can perform instantly and argues for greater attention to ideas students will actually use: probability, statistics, estimation, algorithms, data, and decision-making.

The conversation expands from math into the larger purpose of school. Ted reflects on visiting 200 schools across all 50 states and the “bright spots” he found where teachers are trusted, students have agency, and learning is connected to genuine purpose. He discusses career-based learning, his documentary Multiple Choice, alternatives to the college-for-all pathway, the pressure created by elite college admissions, and why he questions the influence of standardized test scores on education.

Along the way, Ted offers a simple but powerful reminder: when students are engaged, they learn.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Ted Dintersmith — https://www.teddintersmith.com/

Aftermath — https://www.aftermaththebook.com/

Multiple Choice — https://www.multiplechoicefilm.com/

What School Could Be — https://www.teddintersmith.com/what-school-could-be

Most Likely to Succeed — https://www.whatschoolcouldbe.org/most-likely-to-succeed

Dr. Nadine Ebri, CEO of Ebri Education and a 2026 Presidential Leadership Scholar, joins the podcast to share how working with her daughter after an autism diagnosis led her to build an app called Free Indeed, designed to track development and give other parents tools to support their kids at home. Nadine also talks through her Presidential Leadership Scholars project, The Ripple Effect, which trains college students to bring AI literacy to older adults in their communities so no one gets left behind, and her journey from reluctant teacher to Duval County Teacher of the Year finalist, including the long division rap video with her students that went on to rack up over 20 million views. She also shares how she built and led a district-wide Minecraft Education lab focused on cybersecurity and AI.

https://ebrieducation.org/

0:00 – Intro & welcome

1:05 – Nadine's journey: from reluctant teacher to "how do you want to learn?"

6:23 – The leap from classroom to Minecraft Education and beyond

23:35 – How the Duval County Minecraft Lab got started

25:16 – Biggest takeaways from Minecraft Education

28:05 – Building "Free Indeed" with her daughter

32:42 – Becoming a Presidential Leadership Scholar

34:01 – The Ripple Effect: fighting AI scams and building literacy in older adults

45:39 – Lightning round

50:10 – This or that

51:06 – Where to find Nadine & closing thoughts

Jose Gonzalez, a 21st Century Learning Specialist at Compton Unified School District, joins the podcast to share years of hands-on, project-based learning with his students, from building aquaponics systems on trucks and ships to designing a scaled-down interstellar mission in collaboration with a school in Brazil. He talks through how normalizing failure, giving students real problems to solve, and stepping back as "sage on the stage" builds confidence, communication skills, and genuine expertise in his students, many of whom have gone on to present their work on national TV and international stages. Jose also shares stories from taking students to Hawaii and Denver, working through shipping disasters and last-minute repairs, and previews his next big idea: launching student-built can satellites. Stick around for the lightning round, including his class's team song.

Connect with Jose: Jose Gonzalez | LinkedIn

Explore the Davis MS Projects Here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1alhJOSTPOIC-ol0cdJpSNjtxfFcfHx9XiHoQJPjgeKk/edit?tab=t.0