You’re not scared. Right?

Tom Roberts is a driver coach, an aerobatic pilot, a racer, a Buddhist, a former dentist, and a student of fear at the wheel.

His new book, From Fear to Flow: Transform Your Ego and Uncover the Life You Were Meant to Live, unpacks the relationship between fear and peak human performance.

(Spoiler: It’s complicated.)

FUN FACT: For the last decade, Tom and INTC co-host Ross Bentley have taken a small group of driving students to the Nürburgring—probably the single most intimidating race track on earth.

What can you learn about fear and flow from crashing at Spa, coaching drivers at the world’s largest road course, doing charity dental work in Tibet, and helping Nepalese lamas build a monastery?

An awful lot, as it turns out. And we talked about all of it.

***

TIMESTAMPS:

03:10 – Tom and Ross and the Ring Trips

05:39 – Getting Into Racing and Flying

11:15 – Flow State vs. Ego and Fear

26:34 – Parenting and Roots

28:26 – Fighting Ego at the Ring

32:51 – Anxiety and Flow

52:14 – What to Do About It? (and Fun)

***

CHECK OUT TOM’S BOOK:

https://amplifypublishinggroup.com/product/nonfiction/health-medicine-and-wellness/mental-health/from-fear-to-flow/

***

This episode was produced by Sam Smith.

Thanks, as always, to our friends at BFGoodrich for supporting the show!

**

Who We Are + Spicy Merch:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.ItsNotTheCar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

Support It’s Not the Car:

Contribute on Patreon ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.patreon.com/notthecar⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

Topic suggestions, feedback, questions? Let us know what you think!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INTCPod@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

Check out Sam's book!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smithology: Thoughts, Travels, and Semi-Plausible Car Writing, 2003–2023⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

Where to find us:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/intcpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thatsamsmith/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/j.v.braun/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/rossbentley/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://rossbentley.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://speedsecrets.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

ABOUT THE SHOW:

It’s Not the Car is a podcast about people and speed. We tell racing stories and leave out the boring parts.

Ross Bentley is a former IndyCar driver, a bestselling author, and a world-renowned performance coach. Jeff Braun is a champion race engineer. Sam Smith is an award-winning writer and a former executive editor of Road & Track magazine.

We don’t love racing for the nuts and bolts—we love it for what it asks of the meatbag at the wheel.

New episodes every other Tuesday.

Big announcement in this one, kids! No spoilers! Especially not having to do with the one and only Roger Penske, no sir!

This is one of our rare “chat” shows—Jeff, Ross, and Sam gone full chill hang. With this one, they're together on the mic for the first time in months, catching up after a long summer.

(We almost never do this, but you guys have asked for it, so it’s a pleasure!)

Timestamps:

02:57 – “One Night Only” — Jeff’s Son Wrote a Hollywood Movie!

05:53 – Ross Goes Full Nürburgring Recap

17:25 – Jeff Makes a Life Change

31:38 – The Importance of Being Earnest

34:33 – Avoiding Burnout in Things You Love

41:08 – Bucket Lists and the Jeff Braun Kyle Busch Story

(Confession time: We almost titled this episode, “THE ONE WHERE JEFF DOESN’T TELL ROGER PENSKE NO.” But that just seemed cheap.)

(We have standards, you know?)

(Stop laughing. We do! Really!)

*

This show’s format rotates weekly, because squirrel. We call this format “OFF THE CUFF.”

This episode was produced by Sam Smith.

Thanks, as always, to our friends at BFGoodrich for supporting the show!

**

Who We Are + Spicy Merch:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.ItsNotTheCar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

Support It’s Not the Car:

Contribute on Patreon ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.patreon.com/notthecar⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

Topic suggestions, feedback, questions? Let us know what you think!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠INTCPod@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

Check out Sam's book!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Smithology: Thoughts, Travels, and Semi-Plausible Car Writing, 2003–2023⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

Where to find us:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/intcpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thatsamsmith/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/j.v.braun/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/rossbentley/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://rossbentley.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://speedsecrets.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

**

ABOUT THE SHOW:

It’s Not the Car is a podcast about people and speed. We tell racing stories and leave out the boring parts.

Ross Bentley is a former IndyCar driver, a bestselling author, and a world-renowned performance coach. Jeff Braun is a champion race engineer. Sam Smith is an award-winning writer and a former executive editor of Road & Track magazine.

We don’t love racing for the nuts and bolts—we love it for what it asks of the meatbag at the wheel.

New episodes every other Tuesday.