Paloma calls herself a spiritualist, not a witch...she says that label comes from people not understanding what she actually does, and she keeps religious statues she rescued from a closing church in Canada in her space so that nobody who believes in both things feels discriminated against.

Rich tells her how he was healed of an incurable condition after a three-day water fast, and how his wife came through three and a half years of breast cancer into remission, while Paloma makes her case that most disease in the body starts as trauma a person never got to release.

Rich and Paloma find far more common ground than either of them expected, and he ends up praying with her over a broken relationship with her sister. They touch on topics like: "Can you believe in Jesus and still practice something else?" and "Why do Christians lead with fear instead of love?" Listen now!

Mark Fox calls himself a warlock...raised heavy evangelical and homeschooled, he walked away after years of praying for a God he says never once showed up, and now practices witchcraft and African traditional religions.

He tells Rich to his face that the Holy Spirit is something men invented and still control, and walks through the voodoo, Islam and everything else he tried while looking for something real.

Rich and Mark go back and forth about Christianity and Witchcraft and debate which one is worth following more. They touch on topics like: "Who is the ultimate highest power?" and "Is Jesus even real?" Listen now!

Aftrthght chops it up with Rich about the LA music scene he was coming up in, including an open Satanist in his own genre who had the connections he wanted, and the woman practicing witchcraft that man introduced him to.

He recounts the night a dose of psychedelics turned on him: a voice speaking out of his own mouth cursing Jesus, hours on his apartment floor certain he was taking his last breath, and the deliverance that came when he called on Jesus one final time.

He and Rich get into what he sees in the Christian rap community now — that a rapper holding a platform is a minister of the gospel whether or not he claims the title.