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Liminal Space 临界之间

Liminal Space 临界之间

Written by: C^2 Collective
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 Liminal Space dives deep into the messy beauty of living between cultures, identities, and ideologies—especially at the crossroads between China and the West. Hosted by Susan Su and Matthew Lu, two Third-Culture kids in China, we bring you "the good, bad, and the weird" with an insider’s nuance. Each episode, we feature guests navigating their own cultural in-betweenness. Tune in for fresh perspectives and honest dialogue that reveals what lies hidden in life's edges and overlaps. 临界之间 Liminal Space 探索跨文化、跨身份、跨意识形态生活中的“灰色地带”与“缝隙之美”。节目由 Susan Su 与 陆马休 Matthew Lu 主理——两位在中国和美国成长、生活、反思的“第三文化人”。我们关注中国与西方之间的张力与融合，也关注那些生活在转变之中的人：漂泊者、创作者、跨文化专业人士、正在寻找方向的年轻人。这里没有标准答案，只有诚实的对话、细腻的观察，以及那些藏在边缘与重叠处的、往往更真实的东西。 每一期，我们邀请一位正在穿越“临界空间”的嘉宾，聊身份、选择、迷惘与重构，带来新鲜视角与深度思考。 播客视频会同步更新至： https://www.youtube.com/@liminalspacepod 节目文字稿存档： https://liminalspace.transistor.fm/© 2025 C^2 Collective Social Sciences
Episodes
  • From Oregon to Vietnam to China: Owen Sutter on Ethical Making, Art, and Life in Motion

    From Oregon to Vietnam to China: Owen Sutter on Ethical Making, Art, and Life in Motion
    Dec 3 2025
    In this episode, we sit down with Owen Sutter—an Oregonian who crossed the Pacific in search of opportunity, challenge, and a life that would never feel boring. From the chaotic charm of Ho Chi Minh City to the hyper-efficient pace of Shenzhen, Owen’s story reflects what happens when you place yourself at the edge of comfort and let the world reshape you.We talk about ethical manufacturing, cultural immersion, and why Owen built a travel backpack brand, XOÀI Packs, rooted in transparency and fair labor. We explore the differences between Vietnamese warmth and Chinese ambition, the loneliness and beauty of building community from scratch, and how oil painting unexpectedly became his anchor in a new city.At its core, this conversation is about designing a life the way you design a product: with intention, curiosity, and an open heart.Key ThemesIdentity & culture in motionLiving abroad as a catalyst for personal reinventionEthical supply chains & transparent product pricingIndividualism vs. collectivism across culturesCommunity-building in Vietnam and ShenzhenArt as mindfulness & meaning-makingCreativity, risk, and designing a non-boring lifeThe philosophy of liminal spacesTakeawaysLiminal spaces help us understand who we are becoming.Cultural immersion—done honestly—reshapes worldview and values.Transparency in pricing and production can benefit both maker and buyer.Career pivots during COVID required self-advocacy and courage.Vietnam taught Owen the power of community, warmth, and slowing down.Ethical manufacturing demands more than certifications; it requires care.Work-life balance dramatically differs across Asia.Painting helps Owen appreciate the world with more attention and presence.Building community in Shenzhen requires intention; hustle culture can isolate.Designing a travel backpack was as much about designing a life.Keeping an open heart invites opportunities you couldn’t plan for.Avoiding a “boring life” became a guiding principle.Being in a liminal space often opens more doors than it closes.Chapters00:00 — Exploring Liminal Spaces 01:14 — Introducing Owen Sutter 01:58 — The Backpack Business & Transparent Pricing 04:08 — Growing Up in the Pacific Northwest 06:13 — Career Pathfinding During COVID 08:19 — How the Pandemic Shaped Opportunity 12:40 — First Impressions of Vietnam 15:14 — Individualism vs. Collectivism 18:45 — Early Influences and Emerging Goals 23:16 — Inside Vietnam’s Manufacturing Ecosystem 27:41 — Supply Chain Challenges & Factory Realities 30:28 — Cultural Differences in Problem-Solving 33:48 — The Rising Potential of Vietnam 36:25 — Building Community Abroad 41:32 — Navigating Culture in Daily Life 44:15 — The Leap to Shenzhen 46:05 — Art as Expression & Mindfulness 50:36 — Finding an Artistic Community 54:54 — Challenges of Making Friends in Shenzhen 58:35 — Building the Travel Backpack Business 01:02:47 — Ethical Manufacturing & Values 01:06:28 — Vision for XOÀI Packs & Personal Growth 01:09:33 — Immersing in China’s Complexity 01:14:28 — Designing Life Through Opportunity 01:20:44 — Creative Recommendations & ClosingOwen's backpack project: www.xoaipacks.comEmail for inquiries: Owen@xoaipacks.com Owen’s Newly Published Travel Writing: https://www.newenglishreview.org/articles/84984-2/This podcast is brought to you by C^2 Collective, a multicultural nonprofit community empowering young people across China and beyond to think curiously, connect across cultures, and create positive change. We host events, run a social innovation network, and publish the Curation^2 newsletter @ https://csquared-collective.com/Music by Megan TanArt by Cindy Zhang从俄勒冈到越南再到中国：Owen Sutter 谈伦理制造、艺术与一段“在路上”的人生在本期节目中，我们与 Owen Sutter 对谈——一位从俄勒冈跨越太平洋、寻找机会、挑战，以及“不无聊的人生”的年轻人。从胡志明市的混乱魅力，到深圳的高速律动，Owen 的旅程展示了：当一个人甘愿站在舒适区边缘，让世界重新塑造你时，会发生什么。我们聊到 伦理制造、文化沉浸，以及他为何打造了透明定价、注重公平劳动的旅行背包品牌 XOÀI Packs。我们也讨论越南式的温暖与中国式的雄心之间的差异、在异乡从零建立社区的孤独与美感，以及为什么油画竟成了他在深圳扎根的方式。归根到底，这期节目探讨的，是如何像设计产品一样——以 意图、好奇、与一颗敞开的心——来设计人生。核心主题身份与文化的流动海外生活如何成为自我重塑的催化剂伦理供应链与透明定价个人主义与集体主义的文化差异在越南与深圳建立社区艺术作为正念与意义的来源创造力、风险，以及拒绝“无聊人生”“过渡空间”（liminal space）...
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    1 hr and 28 mins
  • A Chef's Journey Between Shanghai and Melbourne: Tina Zhao on Food, Identity, and Creative Freedom

    A Chef's Journey Between Shanghai and Melbourne: Tina Zhao on Food, Identity, and Creative Freedom
    Nov 1 2025
    What happens when love sends you halfway across the world, and food brings you back home?In this episode, Susan and I sit down with Tina Zhao — chef, entrepreneur, and founder of Alinta, a Shanghai restaurant that fuses Australian ease with Chinese precision. Tina first left Shanghai at 17 to chase love in Melbourne, only to discover something else entirely: her calling in the kitchen. From culinary school to fine dining, from private dining startups to reality TV, Tina’s story charts the high heat of the food industry across the creativity, the chaos, and the craving for ownership.We talk about what it means to build something that’s 100% yours, the pressures behind “celebrity chef” culture, and how food can become a language of identity, one that bridges continents, careers, and selves.Takeaways：Tina moved to Melbourne at 17 to chase love.Cultural shock was significant upon arriving in Australia.Tina's culinary journey began in culinary school.She found her passion for cooking quickly.Returning to China inspired her entrepreneurial spirit.Private dining became a successful venture for Tina.Tina's experiences on cooking shows were intense and stressful.She values privacy over fame despite her celebrity status.Tina has launched food startups in China.Her journey reflects the dynamic food industry landscape. Tina experienced significant stress in her previous roles due to high expectations and the need for constant creativity.She transitioned from the food industry to a consulting role, where she learned valuable skills but felt constrained by corporate structures.Tina's desire to open a restaurant stemmed from her passion for food and a need for creative freedom.Alinta, her restaurant, represents a fusion of Australian and Chinese culinary influences.Building a unique brand identity was crucial for Alinta, including designing the restaurant and creating a mascot.Food serves as a cultural connector, allowing Tina to bridge her experiences in Australia and China.Customer loyalty is challenging in the competitive Shanghai market, but Tina values the relationships she builds with regulars.Tina emphasizes the importance of having something that is 100% yours, whether it's a business or a hobby.She aims to help others in the food industry by sharing her knowledge and experiences.Tina's journey reflects the importance of optimism and taking risks in pursuing one's passions.Chapters00:00 Exploring Liminal Spaces: Introduction to the Podcast05:20 Cultural Adaptation: Embracing Australian Life11:06 From Culinary School to Fine Dining: Building a Career16:30 The Entrepreneurial Spirit: Returning to China20:22 The Reality of the Food Industry: Love and Stress25:06 The Pressure of Fine Dining28:50 Building Connections Through Food30:44 The Journey to Television Stardom31:37 Navigating the Challenges of Cooking Shows32:38 The Fast-Paced Life in Shanghai33:36 Cultural Adjustments After Returning to Shanghai34:44 The Evolution of Shanghai's Food Scene35:37 The Impact of Technology on Dining36:35 Reflections on Fame and Privacy37:26 Transitioning from Celebrity to Business38:25 The Rise of Healthy Food Trends39:14 Lessons from Food Startups40:12 Consulting and Corporate Life41:06 Balancing Creativity and Business42:01 The Future of Culinary Ventures45:27 Transitioning from Consulting to Culinary Ventures49:10 The Impact of COVID-19 on Career Choices52:53 The Birth of Alinta: A Culinary Dream Realized57:43 Creating a Unique Brand Identity01:03:22 Unexpected Encounters: A Full Circle Moment01:04:16 Food as a Cultural Bridge01:07:36 Evolving Menu Design for Customer Engagement01:11:03 Adapting to Customer Preferences and Trends01:12:33 The Journey of Entrepreneurship and Ownership01:15:46 Vision for the Future in the Food Industry01:18:06 Embracing Challenges and Positive Mindset01:19:11 Recommendations and Personal FavoritesLittle Red (小红书): tinayuezhaoInstagram: tinayyueEmail Inquiries: tinayuezhao@gmail.comThis podcast is brought to you by C^2 Collective, a multicultural nonprofit community empowering young people across China and beyond to think curiously, connect across cultures, and create positive change. We host events, run a social innovation network, and publish the Curation^2 newsletter @ https://csquared-collective.com/Music by Megan TanArt by Cindy Zhang当爱情带你远渡重洋，而食物又带你回家当爱情让你漂洋过海，而食物又将你带回故乡，会发生什么？在本期节目中，Susan 和我与 赵悦 Tina Zhao 对谈——她是一位厨师、创业者，也是上海餐厅 Alinta 的创始人。Alinta 将澳洲的轻松与中国的精致融合在一张餐桌上。17 岁那年，Tina 为了爱情离开上海前往墨尔本，却意外在厨房中找到真正的热情。从厨艺学校到高级餐厅，从私人定制餐饮到电视节目，她的故事横跨文化与行业，在高压与创造之间不断重塑自我。我们聊到如何打造一个“...
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    1 hr and 22 mins
  • From Chinese Rock Star to Cross-Cultural Storyteller: Henry Kong on Music, Identity, and Cultural Exchange

    From Chinese Rock Star to Cross-Cultural Storyteller: Henry Kong on Music, Identity, and Cultural Exchange
    Oct 2 2025
    What does it mean to grow up with music, and then grow into it?In this episode of Liminal Space, we speak with Henry Kong—festival organizer, music promoter, and 75th descendant of Confucius—about his journey from teenage rock star to cultural bridge-builder.Henry reflects on his first bands, the vibrant indie scene in Beijing, and the challenges of staying authentic as commercialization reshapes China’s music industry. He also opens up about cultural adaptation as an international student in the U.S. (from Beijing to Bloomington, Indiana), the tension between identity and opportunity, and why storytelling is the key to meaningful cultural exchange.From the chaos of touring to the quiet lessons of miscommunication, Henry shares the risks and rewards of carving out a career in music. For aspiring creatives, his advice is simple but vital: don’t be afraid to try anything.Takeaways:Henry Kong is the 75th descendant of Confucius. (we don't know for sure lol!)His journey in music began with a middle school band.He took over a music festival in high school.Henry's experiences shaped his focus and confidence.The indie music scene in Beijing was vibrant and supportive.Commercialization has impacted the authenticity of music.Cultural adaptation is crucial for international students.Maintaining authenticity is important in cultural exchange.Henry's college experience was influenced by his music background.His unique story helped him stand out in college applications. Henry Kong transitioned from tech to music promotion.He emphasizes the importance of pursuing one's passion.Cultural exchange is vital in the music industry.The Chinese music scene is rapidly evolving.Henry's first promotion experience was with the band Escape Plan.He enjoys being a tour guide for artists.Miscommunication can lead to challenges on tour.Henry aims to be a key player in the Chinese music industry.He believes in starting small and scaling up.Storytelling is essential in bridging cultural gaps.Chapters:00:00 Exploring Liminal Spaces in Identity and Culture01:11 Henry Kong: A Unique Journey in Music and Festivals04:26 From Rock Star to Music Promoter: Henry's Background08:54 The Evolution of a Music Career: From School Bands to Touring15:21 Navigating Cultural Differences: Experiences in America23:41 The Changing Landscape of the Indie Music Scene28:14 College Life and Music: Balancing Passion and Education39:21 Entrepreneurial Ventures: Lessons from Startups40:46 The Journey into Music and Entrepreneurship42:24 Building a Network in the Music Industry44:06 Navigating Challenges in Touring44:57 The Dual Role of Cultural Exchange46:02 The Human Side of Touring52:05 Miscommunication and Crisis Management52:31 Balancing Education and Career54:23 Adapting to Changes in the Industry56:04 Consulting and Creative Collaborations57:13 Opportunities for Cultural Exchange58:46 Reviving the Live Entertainment Scene01:03:43 Future Plans and Aspirations01:05:58 The Dream of Cultural Storytelling01:08:18 Advice for Aspiring Creatives01:13:51 Recommendations for Films and InspirationHenry Kong's Email: hkong@neosoul.liveThis podcast is brought to you by C^2 Collective, a multicultural nonprofit community empowering young people across China and beyond to think curiously, connect across cultures, and create positive change. We host events, run a social innovation network, and publish the Curation^2 newsletter @ https://csquared-collective.com/Music by Megan TanArt by Cindy Zhang 《摇滚之后，他选择讲述文化的故事——Henry Kong 的音乐与身份之旅》 成长于音乐，又在音乐中成长，这意味着什么？在本期 Liminal Space 中，我们对话 Henry Kong——音乐节主理人、演出推广人，同时也是孔子的第75代后人（未经考证）。Henry 分享了他从少年摇滚乐手到文化桥梁建设者的独特旅程。他回顾了自己最初的乐队经历、北京独立音乐场景的蓬勃与支持氛围，以及在商业化浪潮下坚持真实与独立的挑战。他也谈到自己作为国际学生在美国（从北京到印第安纳州布鲁明顿）的适应过程，如何在身份与机遇之间寻找平衡，以及为什么 “讲故事”是有意义的文化交流的关键。从巡演的混乱到沟通失误中的安静教训，Henry 分享了在音乐行业中冒险与收获的双重体验。对于年轻的创意者，他的建议简单却重要：不要害怕尝试一切。节目要点:Henry Kong 是孔子第75代后裔（未经证实haha）中学时期就开始组乐队高中时接手并运营音乐节这些经历塑造了他的专注与自信北京的独立音乐场景曾经充满活力与支持商业化影响了音乐的真实性文化适应对国际学生至关重要在文化交流中保持真实尤为重要Henry ...
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    1 hr and 20 mins
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