Ever notice how often someone asks for a brochure when what they really need is something else entirely?

That’s where this conversation goes, and it’s a good one. I sat down with Bill Shander, an information designer and author who calls himself a “stakeholder whisperer.” And trust me, it’s not as mystical as it sounds. It’s actually a practical, powerful way to rethink how you show up in your marketing conversations.

We talked about why storytelling isn’t just about your audience. It’s also about how you communicate with the people inside your business who shape what gets created in the first place.

A few takeaways worth holding onto:

• Don’t jump to the solution too fast When someone asks for a deliverable, a brochure, a campaign, a website, pause. That request is often just the symptom. Your real job is to figure out the problem underneath it.
• Your most important stakeholder isn’t always your boss It’s easy to default to the person giving the assignment. But the real priority is usually the end user. The person who will read, click, buy, or ignore what you create.
• Influence comes from expertise, not opinion “I like this better” won’t get you far. But “data shows this performs better” changes the conversation. Bring evidence, not just ideas.
• Ask one better question You don’t have to challenge everything. Start small. One thoughtful question can open the door to a smarter solution and a deeper conversation.
• Stop being an order taker The people who grow in their roles aren’t the ones who say yes to everything. They’re the ones who think, question, and guide.

The real magic here is simple. When you shift from doing what people ask to understanding what they actually need, everything gets better. Your work, your results, and how people see you.

About Bill

Bill Shander is an information designer, helping clients turn their data into compelling visual and often interactive experiences. He teaches data storytelling, information design and data visualization on LinkedIn Learning, and in workshops around the world. Clients include the World Bank, Starbucks, multiple U.S. Government agencies, Big Four firms, and many more household names across a spectrum of industries. He is a keynote speaker and has lectured for graduate and undergraduate students at Harvard, Northeastern, UVM, and other universities across the United States.

LEARN MORE: https://billshander.com/

After twelve hundred episodes and sixteen years of conversations, I’ve heard a lot of smart ideas about marketing and sales. But every once in a while, one sticks with me. This one goes all the way back to the beginning, to a conversation with my very first and very frequent guest, Matt Nettleton.

It’s about sales, but not the pushy, fight-your-way-in kind. It’s about something much simpler and a whole lot more effective.

I sat down with Matt, a sales coach and founder of Sandler Training, to talk about what he calls “storming the castle.” And no, it’s not about medieval strategy. It’s about what most salespeople get completely wrong.

Here’s the shift that matters:

• Stop pitching, start asking Most sales calls fall apart because we lead with what we want to say. Matt flipped that on its head. When you ask thoughtful, structured questions, prospects don’t resist. They lean in and start talking.

• Questions are a discipline, listening is an art That line stuck with me. Great questions aren’t random. They’re planned. When you know where the conversation is going, you can actually listen instead of just waiting for your turn to talk.

• Guide the conversation, don’t force it Matt shared a simple flow. Start broad, narrow it down, and uncover the real issue. By the time you get there, the prospect has basically invited you in and handed you the problem to solve.

The big “aha” for me was this. You don’t have to fight your way into the conversation. If you do it right, they lower the drawbridge for you.

And honestly, that’s a lot more fun than storming the castle.

I knew that Danielle Hughes and I were kindred spirits the first time I saw the name of her company More Than Words Copywriting. Clearly, we had the same attitude about words, but our bond was stronger than that. We agreed on so many things in marketing that it has been an absolute pleasure to get to know her over the years. And so I could not dive into my archives without sharing at least one of our conversations, this one about creating a bio that makes people want to get to know you is my favorite.

Ever read a bio that sounded like a LinkedIn résumé in a tuxedo? Polished, proper, and completely forgettable. That’s exactly what we set out to fix in this conversation.

I sat down with Danielle Hughes to talk about how to turn your bio into something people actually want to read and more importantly, someone they want to work with.

Danielle helps entrepreneurs and organizations uncover their personality brand so their message feels natural, not forced, and actually connects.

Here’s where the conversation really landed:

• Your bio isn’t about you, it’s for them Yes, it’s your story, but your reader is scanning for one thing. Can you help me? Shift the focus from “here’s everything I’ve done” to “here’s how I make your life easier.”
• Personality beats perfection A great bio makes someone feel like they already know you. Danielle calls it becoming a “fully formed human on the page.” That means sharing just enough of who you are to spark a connection, not your entire life story.
• You have permission to leave things out This one hit home. Just because you did it doesn’t mean it belongs in your bio. If you don’t want to do it again, don’t highlight it. Your bio should point toward where you’re going, not where you’ve been.
• Give them something to grab onto A hobby, a quirky detail, something you love to talk about. It doesn’t have to be relevant to your work. It just has to be interesting enough to start a conversation.
• Make it easy to skim Most people won’t read every word. Front-load the good stuff, break it up, and don’t be shy about including results or even a well-placed humblebrag.

If your bio is making people yawn before they meet you, it’s time for a rewrite. Wake it up with a little personality, a dash of honesty, and just enough of you to make someone think, “Okay, I want to talk to her.”

I love diving into my archive. There are so many amazing conversations there, like this one with Deirdre Tshien. We talked about the difference between creating fun content for the feed and functional content that starts conversations and drives prospects to your door.

If your social media feels like shouting into the wind, you’re not alone. So many business owners post, promote, repeat, and then wonder why no one responds. The problem usually isn’t the platform. It’s the approach.

In this conversation, I sat down with Deirdre Tshien to talk about what it really means to be social on social media. And spoiler alert, it has a lot less to do with posting more often and a lot more to do with starting better conversations.

Deirdre shares a simple four-part content rhythm that helps turn random posts into a smart strategy.

• Start with awareness Ask a question. Share an opinion. Use a poll. Give people an easy way to jump into the conversation. If no one engages, it’s hard to build momentum.
• Follow with elaboration Once people show interest, go deeper. Share advice, explain the topic, or answer questions. This is where you show your expertise without sounding like a know-it-all.
• Build community Talk about clients, partners, collaborators, or even life lessons that connect to your message. Tag people when it makes sense. Social media works better when it feels human.
• Then make the ask After you’ve opened the conversation and offered value, invite people to take the next step. Listen to the podcast. Join the webinar. Download the guide. Timing matters.

Too many women business owners treat social media like a billboard. But it works much better as a coffee shop conversation. People don’t gather around billboards. They do gather where they feel seen, heard, and included.

The same tool that helps you find your best customer can also be used to find someone’s fears, anger, or bias. That’s where smart marketing turns into something a lot messier.

In this conversation, from our archive, we unpack market segmentation, the good it can do, and the risks that come with it. Recorded in 2017 many of the same concerns are still valid today.

I chatted with Lydia Thurston and Sam Von Tobel about demographics, psychographics, and why every business owner should understand both sides of the story.

Why this matters: Targeting helps you spend less and connect faster. But when powerful tools land in careless hands, the results can get ugly.

Takeaways:

• Good targeting saves time and money Demographics help you narrow by age, gender, income, or location. Psychographics help you understand interests, values, and habits. Together, they help you reach moms looking for cooking classes or families searching for healthy meal ideas, instead of shouting into the void.
• The same data can be misused We talked about the ProPublica case, where ad targeting tools were tested to reach groups based on hateful beliefs. That’s a wake-up call. These systems don’t just sell soup and cooking classes. They can also spread division if no one is paying attention.
• Just because you can target someone doesn’t mean you should Marketing always needs a moral compass. It’s easy to get excited about precision and forget responsibility. Smart business owners need both.
• Platforms have work to do Facebook responded by blocking some harmful terms, but the bigger challenge remains. People can still be reached through indirect signals like music tastes, interests, or online behavior. This problem doesn’t disappear with one patch.

If you use targeting tools, ask yourself, will this help my customer, and would I be comfortable explaining how I used it?

Continuing the dive into my vault this week, I decided to share one of the most popular episodes of all time. And it is about video.

It turns out the biggest mistake we make with video isn’t bad lighting or awkward pauses. It’s thinking we have to be the star of the show.

In this conversation, I sat down with Mechelle MacDonald, a writer, entrepreneur, and growth coach who helps people show up with confidence and clarity. We talked about why video matters and how to make it feel a whole lot less intimidating.

If video has been sitting on your “I really should do this” list, this one’s for you.

Here are a few takeaways that stuck with me:

• You don’t have to be on camera to get started Michelle shared a simple idea that feels like a relief. Start with your hands, your process, your product. Show something in action. You’re still building connection, just without the pressure of being front and center.
• Short beats perfect every time Aim for about 60 seconds. That’s your sweet spot. People are scrolling fast, and you’ve got just a few seconds to catch their attention. Think of it as giving a sample, not the whole meal.
• Silent video still needs to speak A lot of people are watching with the sound off. Captions aren’t optional, they’re essential. If they can’t follow along without audio, you’re losing them before you even begin.
• Don’t assume they already know Even if you’ve been in business for years, your audience needs reminders. New people are discovering you every day. Keep explaining what you do and why it matters.
• Make it feel like you The tone of your video should match the experience someone gets when they call you or walk in your door. If it feels disconnected, trust breaks fast.

Video isn’t about being polished. It’s about being present and giving your audience something they can see, feel, and connect with. Start small. Your audience isn’t looking for perfect. They’re just looking for you.

Reaching 1,200 episodes feels like the perfect excuse to look back at where it all began. Over the years, there have been conversations that made me laugh, made me think, and a few that deserved far more attention than they received the first time around.

So this week, I’m opening the vault.

Each day, I’ll be re-releasing one favorite episode from the archives. Some are memorable classics, others are hidden gems, but every one of them still has something worth sharing today.

First up: if the words Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles instantly got your attention, you’re going to enjoy this one.

Originally released as Episode 19 in early 2010, this conversation with Jay Mattingly takes a fun and unexpected look at DISC profiles through the personalities of everyone’s favorite crime-fighting turtles. It’s lighthearted, clever, and packed with insights you can still use today.

Some business lessons come from spreadsheets. Others come from pizza-loving, crime-fighting turtles. I sat down with Jay Mattingly, our director of marketing, and somehow we ended up deep in the world of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And honestly, it made more sense than you’d think.

We were talking about DiSC profiles and Jay had one of those “wait a minute” moments. The turtles are basically a perfect personality map.

If you remember them, you probably already know where this is going.Leonardo, Raphael, Michelangelo, and Donatello weren’t just different. They were different on purpose.

And that’s where this gets interesting for business owners.

Every team needs a Raphael The fast decision-maker. He jumps in, takes action, and yes, sometimes ruffles feathers. That’s your D personality. You may not always love the delivery, but you’ll love the momentum.

Don’t underestimate your Michelangelo He’s the fun one, the energy, the morale booster. High I personalities keep the team connected and engaged. Without them, work gets done, but it’s a grind.

Your Donatello keeps you out of trouble Detail-focused, thoughtful, and maybe a little cautious. That C personality is the reason your big ideas don’t fall apart under pressure.

Leadership doesn’t always look loud Leonardo leads, but not by overpowering the room. He’s steady, supportive, and steps up when needed. That S personality often becomes the glue that holds everything together.

Who are the Turtles on Your Team?

The turtles worked because they were different, not in spite of it. They respected each other when it mattered, even if they drove each other a little crazy along the way. Sound familiar? If your team feels a bit like herding turtles some days, you’re probably doing it right. The goal isn’t to make everyone think the same. It’s to understand how they think so you can work better together. Because in business, just like in cartoons, the magic isn’t in one personality. It’s in the mix.

Welcome to More Than a Few Words, a marketing conversation.

And today… I'm celebrating a milestone.

This is episode number 1200.

Yes, twelve hundred conversations, monologues, ideas, and probably more than a few opinions along the way. My mother always said I was born talking, so honestly, this shouldn’t surprise anyone. But still… 1200? That feels like it deserves a moment.

Because milestones matter. They’re not just numbers. They’re markers along the road. Little signposts that say, “Hey, look how far you’ve come… and maybe take a minute to think about where you’re going next.”

And I’ve been doing exactly that. I’ve been digging back into the archives, listening to some of those early episodes. Cleaning them up a bit. Cringing occasionally. Smiling a lot. And over the next few days, I’m going to share a few of those with you.

Looking back is useful. It gives you a chance to celebrate what worked. The ideas that landed. The moments where you got it right, maybe even by accident.

But it also gives you a little distance from the things that didn’t. And let’s be honest, there were a few. But they weren’t failures. They were experiments. And with a little time and perspective, it is easy to see not just what didn’t work, but why.

That’s the real value of a milestone. It gives you the space to step back and see the bigger picture.

And then… to turn around and look ahead. Where do you want to go next? Sometimes the next step is a pivot. A new offer. Letting go of something that no longer fits. What new ideas are calling your name? What projects have been sitting on the back burner just waiting for a little attention?

Or maybe… everything is working exactly the way you want it to right now. And that’s okay too. There’s no rule that says you have to change everything just because you hit a milestone.

But either way, don’t let the moment slip by unnoticed. You don’t have to wait for 1200 episodes. Maybe your milestone is five years in business. Or 100 podcast episodes. Or your first big client. Those are big deals too. Celebrate them.

Pause long enough to recognize what you’ve built. Decide what comes next. And set your sights on the next milestone when you will have a A chance to reflect, to celebrate… and to reimagine what comes next.