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To contribute to the SSI year-end challenge match campaign, click here: https://scienceandspirituality.org/giving-tuesday/

In this episode, Richard interviews Dr. Zeynep Kuleli, a historian of Science and Technology. They discuss Dr. Kuleli’s research into Sufi spirituality and its implications for the vibrant floriculture in early modern Istanbul. After their conversation, Richard concluded this episode by sharing that what he has learned from Sufi spiritual insights and commitments can help him deepen his own spirituality and become a better Christian disciple, especially in the face of environmental crisis.

Contents:

1. The interview began with Dr. Kuleli describing her early life in Istanbul and interests, which eventually led her to enter the Ph.D. program in the History of Science and Technology at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. Since she has just completed her dissertation, Richard also asked her to describe her doctoral research.
2. From there, the conversation moved to Sufism, with Dr. Kuleli providing an introductory description of this special form of spirituality within Islam.
3. Richard first met Dr. Kuleli at a conference in February, hosted by the Kripke Center for the Study of Religion and Society at Creighton University in Omaha. He asked her to describe the paper she presented at the conference, entitled “Sufi Orders and Floriculture in Early Modern Istanbul.” Dr. Kuleli described the social, cultural, and spiritual significance of this floriculture, with its focus on a small selection of flowers, including tulips, carnations, and roses. She described how the Sufis came to see these flowers as manifesting the highest attributes of God. From the Sufi perspective, there is not a sharp demarcation between nature, human culture, and the Divine.
4. In her Creighton paper, Dr. Kuleli concluded, “"...when compared to their European contemporaries...the Ottoman perception did not rigidly demarcate the realms of nature, culture, and the divine, presenting a more fluid conceptualization of these entities."  She discussed this conclusion with Richard and its implications for how we understand God.
5. Finally, Dr. Kuleli describe what she has learned from this research project: it has taught her that we need to overcome our division and polarization within societies by recognizing that we are One in our existence with the Divine, nature, and one another. When we attack others, we are actually attacking ourselves.
6. Following the interview, Richard picked up on this notion that we are One with nature, God, and one another. He believes that the Western impulse to demarcate God from Creation lies at the base of our inability to develop an environmental ethic, which celebrates and preserves the environment. He believes that we would be far more successful at addressing our environmental challenges, if we followed Sufism and other spiritual traditions in emphasizing the Oneness of existence that nature, humans, and God share together. He cautioned that this does not necessitate taking a pantheistic perspective.

For more information about Sufism, see this YouTube tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc9k9nvIHOU

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In this episode, Richard Randolph has a far-ranging conversation on Buddhism, ecology, and Western science with Dr. Stephanie Kaza. Dr. Kaza is Professor Emerita at the University of Vermont, where she taught Environmental Studies for many years. She also has lay ordination as a Zen Buddhist. She has written extensively on religion and ecology, eco-feminism, consumer culture, and environmental justice—all from a Zen Buddhist perspective. These show notes conclude with publication information on books by Dr. Kaza for those interested in further reading.

Stephanie Kaza earned a Ph.D. in Biology from the University of California-Santa Cruz. She also has two Masters degrees: a MA in Education from Stanford and a Masters of Divinity from the Unitarian Starr King School for the Ministry in Berkely.

Contents:

1. Richard Randolph began the episode by sharing his commitment to inter-religious dialogue. Although Randolph makes his spiritual home within Christianity, he believes that he can deepen his Christian faith and grow spiritually by learning from other religious traditions and spiritual perspectives. He believes a compelling illustration of the possibilities for this spiritual cross-fertilization was well exemplified by the Hindu Mahatma Gandhi and the Christian Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
2. The interview began with Dr. Kaza sharing her scientific and spiritual journey, which led to her life’s work in environmental studies and advocacy, principally from a Zen Buddhist perspective.
3. Following her autobiographical introduction, Dr. Kaza elaborated on her claim in Green Buddhism that environmental work needs to be placed in the context of a “steady spiritual practice, knowing the work will go on beyond our own lifetimes.” Dr. Kaza explained how Buddhism sustained her work as a scientist and an environmentalist.
4. Dr. Kaza next described her proposal for creating an “intimacy with nature.”
5. Their discussion of “intimacy with nature” then segued into a description of the Buddhist metaphor of “Indra’s Net” as a powerful explanation for the interdependence of all life, which is also a critical concept in environmental studies.
6. Noting that over consumption is a significant driving force to many environmental problems, Dr. Kaza explained Buddhism’s critique of contemporary consumerism, especially in advanced societies.
7. Next, they discussed Buddhism’s critique of contemporary, Western science. Dr. Kaza noted that Buddhism sees many advantages in contemporary science, but also recognizes significant limitations in the way scientific research and teaching are currently practiced.
8. Acknowledging it is easy to become depressed and hopeless by the scope of current environmental challenges, Stephanie Kaza concluded the interview by describing how Buddhism offers grounding for hope in the face of these overwhelming challenges.
9. After the interview concluded, Richard shared some important ways in which Buddhism has strengthened and deepened his faith as a Christian, especially in the face of the environmental crises.

For Further Reading, Three Books by Dr. Stephanine Kaza:

Kaza, Stephanie (ed.). Hooked! Buddhist Writings on Greed, Desire, and the Urge to Consume. Boston, MA: Shambhala Publications, 2005.

Kaza, Stephanie. Mindfully Green: A Personal and Spiritual Guide to Whole Earth Thinking. Boston, MA: Shambhala Publications, 2008.

Kaza, Stephanie. Green Buddhism: Practice and Compassionate Action in Uncertain Times. Boston, MA: Shambhala Publications, 2019.

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In this episode, Richard Randolph interviews Olivier Bonnassies, who along with Michel-Yves Bolloré, is co-author of the book, God, The Science, The Evidence, The Dawn of a Revolution. This book was originally published in France in 2021. Since its publication, the book has sold more than 400,000 copies. An English translation has just been published by Palomar Press.

Contents

1. Richard Randolph begins by providing an overview of the book and its central thesis.
2. He welcomes Olivier Bonnassies to the podcast. Then, Bonnassies shares his intellectual and spiritual journey, culminating in co-writing the book.
3. Bonnassies describes the central thesis of the book, which is that recent developments in various sciences make the supposition of a creator God a more logical and rational intellectual position than a materialism that denies the existence of anything beyond the physical world.
4. Bonnassies responds to Randolph’s query about how writing the book has changed and shaped his own faith outlook.
5. After the interview, Randolph provides a nuanced assessment of the book and makes a suggestion about who might find it a helpful read.

Sources Used:

Michel-Yves Bolloré and Olivier Bonnassies, God, The Science, The Evidence, The Dawn of a Revolution, Translated by Rebecca M. West and Christine Elizabeth Jones: Luxembourg, Palomar Editions, 2025.