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Do Christians have to believe that the miracle stories in the Bible literally happened in order to be faithful followers of Jesus?

In this thought-provoking episode, Richard Randolph explores one of the most challenging questions at the intersection of science and faith. Drawing on biblical scholarship, theology, and his own spiritual journey, Richard argues that Christians can remain deeply committed Christians, while understanding the miracle stories as profound expressions of spiritual truth rather than literal suspensions of the laws of nature.

Along the way, he examines miracle traditions from several of the world's religions, considers the historical work of Elaine Pagels, reflects on the theology of physicist-priest John Polkinghorne, and explains why he believes the Resurrection belongs in a fundamentally different category than the other miracle stories found in Scripture.

Whether you agree or disagree with Richard's conclusions, this episode invites listeners to think more deeply about what miracle stories were intended to communicate—and why they continue to matter today.

In this episode you'll discover:

• That miracle stories appear in virtually every major religious tradition.
• Why Richard no longer interprets biblical miracles literally.
• Why he believes science and authentic Christian faith need not be in conflict.
• How trust in God shapes his understanding of Divine Action.
• Elaine Pagels' historical insights into miracle stories in the ancient world.
• Why the Resurrection is fundamentally different from other biblical miracle stories.
• Insights into miracle stories from John Polkinghorne and John Dominic Crossan
• How miracle stories may become even more spiritually powerful when we read metaphorically, rather than literally.
• A moving reflection from physicist and theologian Robert (Bob) Russell on praying for a healing miracle during his battle with prostate cancer.
• The Buddhist insight that the greatest miracle is the transformation of human consciousness—and how Christianity expresses a similar vision of transformed life.

Books and Authors Mentioned

• Elaine Pagels, Miracles and Wonder: The Historical Mystery of Jesus (2025)
• John Polkinghorne, "The Credibility of the Miraculous" (Zygon)
• John Dominic Crossan (quoted in Miracles and Wonder)

Additional Reflections from Richard Randolph on the Resurrection

• Podcast Episode 2.3: “Science and Resurrection”
• Substack Reflection on “Science and Resurrection,” available at https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com

Connect with Science and Spirituality

Website:
https://www.scienceandspirituality.org

Support the Podcast:
https://www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

Email Richard:
richard@scienceandspirituality.org

To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com

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In this episode of Science and Spirituality for the Curious, I explore an important question: What happens when we integrate our spiritual lives with our physical lives, rather than treating them as separate dimensions of human existence?

My guest is Rev. Dr. Shelly Petz, author of Meet You at Nine, which is available for purchase at Amazon.com. Shelly’s new book chronicles her journey into embodied spirituality. Through years of prayer, ministry, and personal reflection, Shelly has discovered a specific prayer practice that engages not only the mind and spirit, but also the body.

Our conversation begins with Shelly's own spiritual journey. Although she originally expected to pursue a career in medicine like her father and grandfather, a profound experience while hiking led her in a different direction. Ultimately this new direction led into ordained ministry. Along the way, Shelly developed a deeper understanding of prayer—not as a way of informing God about our needs, but as an invitation to align ourselves with God's presence and purposes.

A turning point in Shelly's spiritual life came when she sensed an invitation from God to meet each day at 9:00 a.m. What began as a daily commitment to prayer, gradually evolved into a practice she calls circle prayer. Inspired in part by Mark Batterson's book The Circle Maker and the ancient story of Honi the Circle Maker, Shelly began walking and driving in intentional circles while praying for her family, congregation, community, and others.

As Shelly explains in our conversation, this practice transformed the way she sees the world. Circle prayer helped her slow down, become more attentive to the people and places around her, and recognize opportunities for human connection that might otherwise have gone unnoticed.

One of the most intriguing aspects of our discussion is Shelly's conviction that God is always ready to meet us. The barriers that prevent us from experiencing God's presence are not God's barriers, but our own. Through her practice of circle prayer, Shelly has learned to become more attentive to that ever-present invitation from God.

During our conversation, Shelly also shared practical examples of how circle prayer can deepen one's spiritual life, and she demonstrated the practice of circle prayer for listeners of this episode.

Whether you are curious about prayer, interested in spiritual practices, or simply looking for new ways to integrate the physical and spiritual dimensions of life, I think you'll find this conversation both thought-provoking and inspiring.

To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com

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This episode features a panel discussion and review of the controversial new film, The Story of Everything. Philosopher of science Stephen Meyer is the screenwriter, and he draws heavily from his book, Return of the God Hypothesis. The film was directed by Eric Esau. It has had a limited release in U.S. theaters through Fathom Entertainment.

Panelists explored these questions:

1. Were there moments in the film that created a sense of wonder and awe for you?
2. Does the film raise new questions for you?
3. What were the film’s strengths and weaknesses?
4. Would you recommend this film to your friends and acquaintances?

Important Links:

• Science and Spirituality website: www.scienceandspirituality.org
• Richard Randolph’s Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
• The Story of Everything trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwL3ZKlwEoc
• Stephen Meyer, Return of the God Hypothesis, HarperOne, 2021

To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com

Send us Fan Mail

Richard Randolph has a fascinating discussion with John Grim, a historian of religions focusing on Indigenous Traditions. During their conversation, John shares his experiences learning from indigenous peoples, including being adopted by Crow people from Montana and invited to participate in their Sun Dance ceremonials. He reflects on what people from other faiths and spiritualities can learn from Indigenous knowledge and wisdom.
Links:

• To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support
• Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com
• John Grim is Co-Director of the Yale Forum on Religion and Ecology, for more information go to https://fore.yale.edu/; the Yale Forum current “Living Earth Community” can be found here, https://livingearthcommunity.com/

Suggestions for Further Reading
John Grim, The Shaman: Patterns of Religious Healing Among the Ojibway Indians, University of Oklahoma Press, 1988.
John Grim, editor, Indigenous Traditions and Ecology: The Interbeing of Cosmology and Community, Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard Divinity School Center for the Study of World Religions, 2001.
Robin Kimmerer, Braiding Sweetgrass, Minneapolis, MN: Milkweed, 2013.
N Scott Momaday, House Made of Dawn
Louise Erdrich, Love Medicine
Leslie Harmon Silko, Ceremony
James Welch, Winter in the Blood
Janet Campbell Hale, The Jailing of Cecilia Capture
Susan Power, The Grass Dancer
Eddie Chocolate, Cheyenne Madonna
Gerald Vizenor, Bearheart
Rebecca Roanhorse, Black Sun
Joy Harjo (poet), An American Sunrise
Linda Hogan (poet and novelist), A History of Kindness
Simon Ortiz (poet), From Sand Creek
John G. Neihardt, Black Elk Speaks

To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com

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In this episode, Richard examines one of the most profound questions in the Christian faith: Can science explain—or prove—the Resurrection? Drawing on conversation with physicist-theologian Robert Russell, this episode explores whether scientific cosmology can inform—and deepen—our understanding of resurrection.

Contents

1. This episode begins by noting that there has always been doubt about the Resurrection, going all the way back to Jesus’ disciples. The disciple Thomas earned the nickname, “doubting Thomas,” because he initially doubted the Resurrection of Christ, while the Gospel of Matthew records that some disciples worshipped the risen Messiah, while “others doubted,” Later, in 1 Corinthians 15, the Apostle Paul asserts that the Resurrection is central to the Christian faith.
2. Robert Russell believes that the Resurrection must be viewed within the context of God’s work as Creator. He suggests that God’s work as Creator takes on three different forms. The third form of God’s creative active occurs at the End-Times, when God renews and heals existing creation, rather than replacing it. This is the “New Creation” described in the Book of Revelation 21, “Behold, I am making all things new.”
3. Jesus’ Resurrection on Easter morning is a promissory note, confirming the resurrection as part of God’s plan for the New Creation at the End-Times.
4. The New Creation is both continuous and dis-continuous with reality as we currently experience it. On the one hand, the New Creation will be dis-continuous with present reality. For example, the Resurrection currently appears to be in direct conflict with the laws of nature. However, scientific cosmology allows for the possibility that the laws of nature as we know them are not set in stone. One possibility in scientific cosmology is that there is not one, single universe. Rather, there are multiple universes, creating a “multiverse.” These different universes could have radically different laws of nature. This suggests that the laws of nature could be transformed in the New Creation, so that Resurrection would no longer violate them. Instead, resurrection would be a consistent with those different laws of nature.
5. On the other hand, in some ways, the New Creation would be continuous with reality as we know it. An example of continuity would be that our personal identity continues in the New Creation.
6. Since Robert Russell situates the New Creation within the overarching creative framework of God, it has been part of God’s creative plan all along. That is to say, the New Creation is not an afterthought—nor a corrective for some mistake. It has been part of God’s intention from the beginning.
7. To conclude, while science cannot “explain” the Resurrection, science does not rule out the possibility of resurrection, either. What science can do is suggest potential frameworks that may make resurrection more intelligible to persons of faith.

To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

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John Grimm, and his spouse Mary Evelyn Tucker, are co-founders of the Yale Forum on Ecology and Religion. Previously they also organized a series of conferences at Harvard University, resulting in a multi-volume series on Religions and Ecology.

Contents:

1. The conversation begins with John describing the process he and Mary Evelyn used to create the multi-volume collection of essays examining the relationship between Ecology and various religions and spiritualities. John explains the process of retrieval🡪 re-evaluation 🡪 re-construction that various authors adopted in their examination of how sacred texts could contribute meaningfully to healing the environment.
2. John provides background on the founding of the Yale Forum on Religion and Ecology. Then, he discusses the many resources available on the Yale Forum’s websites.
3. John and Richard also discuss the emergence of “eco-anxiety” and “eco-grief.” John shares how Yale Divinity School has begun offering its students instruction on providing pastoral care for those suffering from eco-anxiety and eco-grief.

For further exploration:

The Yale Forum on Religion and Ecology has multiple websites:

• For the Forum homepage, click here: https://fore.yale.edu/
• For a brief listing of various resources on the Forum, click here: https://fore.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Forum_flyer_2024.pdf
• For the video Journey of the Universe website: https://www.journeyoftheuniverse.org/ To watch the video, go here: Journey of the Universe | Videos & Movies on Vimeo. The password is whowouldyoube619.
• For the new Living Earth Community project, click here: https://livingearthcommunity.com/
• For resources on eco-anxiety and eco-grief, go here: https://fore.yale.edu/Resources/Eco-anxiety-Resources
  
  To check out Science and Spirituality’s new Substack page, click here:
  https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com.

To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com

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In this episode, Richard interviews Dr. Brian Swimme, a mathematical cosmologist and evolutionary philosopher, best known for articulating a “universe story” in collaboration with the late cultural historian and theologian Thomas Berry. Their work integrates contemporary cosmology with spiritual reflection through a story that explores cosmic evolution—from the Big Bang to the emergence of galaxies, to life and human consciousness—while inviting deeper reflection on its meaning for human identity and planetary responsibility.

Contents:

1. Brian and Richard begin their conversation by discussing the relationship between science and spirituality. Brian goes on to describe what he means when he says that the universe sacrifices for the evolutionary development of the universe, especially for the flourishing of life.
2. Brian and Richard discuss the notion of a “cosmic Christianity” and Brian provides examples of how God is revealed through the development and processes of the universe.
3. One of Brian Swimme’s major contributions to how we think about the origin and unfolding of the universe is his description of the “Powers of the Universe”:
   1. Centration
   2. Allurement or Attraction
   3. Emergence
   4. Homeostasis
   5. Cataclysm
   6. Synergy
   7. Transmutation
   8. Transformation
   9. Interrelatedness
   10. Radiance
4. Brian and Richard discussed Brian’s understanding of “resonance” and “reverberation.” They each shared examples of reverberating events in their own lives.

For further exploration

• Check out Brian’s website at https://storyoftheuniverse.org
• Check out Richard’s new Substack blog at www.scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com. Also, look for his reflections on Brian Swimme’s contributions to science and spirituality, in a blog to be posted at the end of this week.
• To see the Emmy award-winning documentary, Journey of the Universe, written by Mary Evelyn Tucker and Brian Swimme—and narrated by Brian—go to https://storyoftheuniverse.org/videos

Books:

• The Universe Story : From the Primordial Flaring Forth to the Ecozoic Era--A Celebration of the Unfolding of the Cosmos, Brian Swimme with Thomas Berry, HarperOne, 1994.
• Cosmogenesis, An Unveiling of the Expanding Universe, Brian Thomas Swimme, Counterpoint, 2022. (Brian’s intellectual and spiritual autobiography.)
• Hidden Heart of the Cosmos (Ecology and Justice Series), Brian Swimme, Orbis Books, 2019.

To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com

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To contribute to the SSI year-end challenge match campaign, click here: https://scienceandspirituality.org/giving-tuesday/

In this episode, Richard interviews Dr. Zeynep Kuleli, a historian of Science and Technology. They discuss Dr. Kuleli’s research into Sufi spirituality and its implications for the vibrant floriculture in early modern Istanbul. After their conversation, Richard concluded this episode by sharing that what he has learned from Sufi spiritual insights and commitments can help him deepen his own spirituality and become a better Christian disciple, especially in the face of environmental crisis.

Contents:

1. The interview began with Dr. Kuleli describing her early life in Istanbul and interests, which eventually led her to enter the Ph.D. program in the History of Science and Technology at the Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. Since she has just completed her dissertation, Richard also asked her to describe her doctoral research.
2. From there, the conversation moved to Sufism, with Dr. Kuleli providing an introductory description of this special form of spirituality within Islam.
3. Richard first met Dr. Kuleli at a conference in February, hosted by the Kripke Center for the Study of Religion and Society at Creighton University in Omaha. He asked her to describe the paper she presented at the conference, entitled “Sufi Orders and Floriculture in Early Modern Istanbul.” Dr. Kuleli described the social, cultural, and spiritual significance of this floriculture, with its focus on a small selection of flowers, including tulips, carnations, and roses. She described how the Sufis came to see these flowers as manifesting the highest attributes of God. From the Sufi perspective, there is not a sharp demarcation between nature, human culture, and the Divine.
4. In her Creighton paper, Dr. Kuleli concluded, “"...when compared to their European contemporaries...the Ottoman perception did not rigidly demarcate the realms of nature, culture, and the divine, presenting a more fluid conceptualization of these entities."  She discussed this conclusion with Richard and its implications for how we understand God.
5. Finally, Dr. Kuleli describe what she has learned from this research project: it has taught her that we need to overcome our division and polarization within societies by recognizing that we are One in our existence with the Divine, nature, and one another. When we attack others, we are actually attacking ourselves.
6. Following the interview, Richard picked up on this notion that we are One with nature, God, and one another. He believes that the Western impulse to demarcate God from Creation lies at the base of our inability to develop an environmental ethic, which celebrates and preserves the environment. He believes that we would be far more successful at addressing our environmental challenges, if we followed Sufism and other spiritual traditions in emphasizing the Oneness of existence that nature, humans, and God share together. He cautioned that this does not necessitate taking a pantheistic perspective.

For more information about Sufism, see this YouTube tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc9k9nvIHOU

To financially support this podcast series, go to www.scienceandspirituality.org/support

To access Richard’s new Substack reflections, https://scienceandspiritualityblog.substack.com