Michael Rueckert was a ski resort marketing director who got curious about a simple question: when someone asks an AI where to ski, does Snow Basin show up? That curiosity led him down a rabbit hole that eventually became Centium AI, a platform now working with over 170 outdoor brands to help them understand and improve their visibility across every major AI model.

In this conversation, Michael and Aaron dig into how ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, and Perplexity each "think" differently about outdoor brands, why landing a GearLab ranking may now be worth more than any paid search campaign, and what it means for marketing when AI starts making purchasing decisions on behalf of humans. They also go deep on the practical side — how to set up Claude projects as a creative co-pilot, why taste is still the irreducible human advantage in an AI world, and why the outdoor industry is actually better positioned than most for what's coming.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg

Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss

Michael Rueckert: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-rueckert/

Centium AI: https://www.centium.ai/

Christian Rawles on SN: https://youtu.be/EVPKsO0O8us

GearLab: https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/

OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai/

Rick Rubin on "Taste": https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNyma-0WMZL/

Claude: https://www.claude.ai

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

Scott Sports: https://www.scott-sports.com/

Gnarly Nutrition: https://gognarly.com/

DBo's Gnarly Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPtESorSIso

Go-Giver (Book): https://amzn.to/4mzP632

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

We hosted a Second Nature meetup with everyone at the Sea Otter Classic, and pulled a handful of friends up to the microphone to have conversations about everything happening in the industry and in their world at large.

Jeremy Dunn, Braydon Bringhurst, Eric Porter, Tom Austen, Rachel Fussell, Steve Blick and Yuri Hauswald joined Aaron on the stage to chat through the lessons they've learned and the things that they're working hard to accomplish in 2026.

A big thank you to Smith Optics for hosting the space for our community to meet up, and for all the brands who contributed to our "Sea Otter Survival Kit".

Show Notes:

Popfly For Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands

Popfly For Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators

Jeremy Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyddunn/

Smith Optics: https://www.smithoptics.com

Braydon Bringhurst: https://www.instagram.com/braydonbringhurst/

HardMTB League: https://www.hardmtbleague.com/

Eric Porter: https://www.instagram.com/portermtb

PorterMTB on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/portermtb

Tom Austen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomausten1/

Pelotan: https://usa.pelotan.cc/

Rachel Fussell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-m-fussell/

People For Bikes: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/

People For Bikes - Backyard Initiative: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/news/backyard-advocacy-toolkit

Steve Blick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-blick/

Yuri Hauswald: https://www.instagram.com/yhauswald/

Yuri's Charity Ride: https://app.99pledges.com/fund/yurichasetherace/yuri-hauswald

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

What if bikes could transform cities, create economies, and solve problems nobody thought they were for?

We're joined today by Peter Abraham, one of the most connected strategic minds in the bike industry, just ahead of Sea Otter Classic. We cover a lot of ground: the state of the bike industry after a brutal few years, why e-bikes are reaching people the legacy brands never could, what London and Paris figured out about infrastructure that LA hasn't, and why Bentonville might be the most important proof of concept in outdoor sports right now.

Plus: the $21 million Scotland Mountain Bike Innovation Center, the LA Olympics bike infrastructure push, and why the brands at Sea Otter with just a tent and a couple of bikes on stands are leaving a lot on the table.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg

Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss

Peter Abraham: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterabraham2/

Sea Otter Classic: https://www.seaotterclassic.com/

Bicycle Leadership Conference: https://www.bicycleleadershipconference.org/

People For Bikes: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/

Modern Elder Academy: https://www.meawisdom.com/

The Algorithm (Book): https://amzn.to/41ROQTg

Rivian's e-Bike: https://ridealso.com/

Amsterdam, The Bike City: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKbRL6Opifg

Abundance (Book): https://amzn.to/4caqpFt

Why Can't We Build Bike Lanes?: https://peterabraham.medium.com/why-cant-we-build-bike-lanes-1115b713a5cf

Festival Trail: https://www.festivaltrail.org

Runway Group: https://runwaynwa.com/

Scotland's MTB Innovation Center: https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-trails/thanks-to-a-21-million-investment-the-worlds-first-mtb-innovation-centre-is-breaking-ground-this-spring-in-scotland/

Atherton Bikes: https://www.athertonbikes.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Bicycle Diaries (Book): https://amzn.to/4e48iDA

Barbarian Days (Book): https://amzn.to/4csxC4W

Levrack: https://www.levrack.com

Kitworks: https://alnk.to/hsyF2FO

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

150 episodes. Two years. No shortage of stuff happening.

On this milestone bro pod, we take stock of where Second Nature has been — and where things are heading. Digging into what's actually changed in 2026: what we've removed, working with an executive coach, launching a live weekly show, and opening the first mountain bike retail store in Shenzhen, China. Plus a real conversation about the grind before the momentum, why the irons are finally heating up, and what it feels like when years of consistent work starts clicking into place.

Show Notes:

Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg

Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss

Second Nature's Catalog: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia/videos

Dustin Klein Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM0r0_R-cfk

Matt Lloyd-Thomas on SN: https://youtu.be/UFukxaniLMI

Christian Rawles on SN: https://youtu.be/EVPKsO0O8us

Christian Rawles: https://www.christianrawles.com/

Enneagram: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test

Super Rider: https://www.youtube.com/@superRiderTV

Freetrail Rest Day: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-freetrail-podcast-with-dylan-bowman/id1492327668

Trailcon: https://www.trailconference.com

Outside Interactive Revenue: https://www.adweek.com/media/outside-interactive-profit-transformation/

The Rebooting - Outside: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-outsides-media-as-flywheel-strategy/id1595625177?i=1000755772587

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Thinking In Bets (Book): https://amzn.to/3QnzUK1

Speedland RXLDVL: https://www.runspeedland.com/products/rx-ldvl

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Floris Gierman has it all: he's an author, content creator, co-founder of a running apparel brand, and so much more. His approach in hindsight seems methodical and measured in its approach, but the truth is that this all came around from years of consistent, small steps. In this episode, we dig into the day-to-day as well as the big picture of Floris Gierman's world.

This episode is supported by Popfly, a platform that connects brands with outdoor, adventure and travel creators for campaigns. Support this podcast by using these links to check out the platform:

Get a personalized Brand demo: https://popfly.com?grsf=x4d7gg

Get set up as a Creator: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss

Show Notes:

Floris Gierman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/florisgierman/

Path Projects: https://pathprojects.com/

Floris on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FlorisGierman

Flo's First Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CAxzM2mkrc

Extramilest Podcast: https://extramilest.com/

Personal Best Running Club: https://www.skool.com/personalbest/about

Scott Bailey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-bailey-0bb22b28/

Geoff Rowley: https://www.instagram.com/geoffrowley/

Running Breakthroughs (Book): https://amzn.to/4sNFEeC

Ryan Hall: https://www.instagram.com/ryanhall3/

Believe In The Run: https://believeintherun.com/

Kilian on Extramilest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJZO-t6O5Bk

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

Manors Golf: https://manorsgolf.com/

KetoneIQ: https://ketone.com/Freetrail30

Path Projects Base Liner: https://pathprojects.com/collections/base-liners

The Way Of Excellence (Book): https://amzn.to/4sNFEeC

Path Projects Basis Tee: https://pathprojects.com/collections/short-sleeves-and-tanks/products/basis-tee

Backcountry Slickrock Kit: https://app.popfly.com/@superridertv/storefront

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Evolution of Brands, Athletes and Creators

If there's one thing for certain, it's that nothing ever stays the same - doubly so if you're a brand in the outdoor space or an athlete or creator. Over the past year, we've had so many discussions about what's working, the right way to approach it, and how it has evolved.

Jonathan Levitt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jlevitt815/

Small Shows Hit Different: https://substack.com/@longrunlabs/p-190439642

Hollow Socks: https://hollowsocks.com/

Hollow Socks on Second Nature: https://youtu.be/qri10TgoOMM

Jonathan's Previous SN episode: https://youtu.be/fYEjPke9Btg

Brand Partnership 101 Article: https://substack.com/home/post/p-170877180

Substack Podcasts: https://on.substack.com/p/introducing-the-substack-recording

Colleen Quigley: https://www.instagram.com/steeple_squigs/

Kitworks: https://alnk.to/hsyF2FO

Claude: https://claude.ai/

Eternal: https://www.eternal.co

Alex Mather on Second Nature

The Huddle: https://findmyhuddle.com/

Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Raziq Rauf "This Is Running" (Book): https://amzn.to/3PteKKk

Seth LaRue Trail Waves: https://trailwaves.substack.com/

Wahoo Kickr: https://amzn.to/4bAgDgY

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Recently, two long-standing outdoor industry businesses, Alpenglow Expeditions and Thomson Bike Tours, were acquired by Milky Way Park. But while acquisitions are nothing new to the outdoor industry, the way it came together (and continues to develop) is worth a closer look. On this episode, iconic athlete and Alpenglow founder Adrian Ballinger joins Milky Way Park's founder Matthew Lloyd-Thomas to share the story.

Show Notes:

Adrian Ballinger: https://www.instagram.com/adrianballinger/

Alpenglow Expeditions: https://alpenglowexpeditions.com/

Matthew Lloyd-Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-lloyd-thomas-541a9614/

Milky Way Park: https://www.milkywaypark.com/

Chernin Group: https://tcg.co/

Unrivaled Sports: https://www.unrivaledsports.com/

Emily Harrington: https://www.instagram.com/emilyaharrington/

Thomson Bike Tours: https://www.thomsonbiketours.com/

Aiden Charles (Coach): https://www.charlescoaching.com/coaches/

The Duffel Shuffle Podcast: https://www.duffelshufflepodcast.com/

DangerStik: https://www.youtube.com/@DangerStikTV

Mt Everest Ski Project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjZvFY6__qw

Centium AI: https://www.centium.ai/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content

Luft Bike Shop: https://luftlosangeles.com/

Zipp 404 Wheels: https://www.sram.com/en/zipp/models/wh-404-ftld-b1

Keith McNally "I Regret Everything" (Book): https://amzn.to/40BXhBO

Derek Thompson - Fatherhood: https://www.derekthompson.org/p/three-reasons-to-be-a-parent

Lenz Heated Socks: https://lenzproducts.com/

Broken Arrow Skyrace: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/

Tangle Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/tangle/id1538788132

Freehub Magazine: https://freehub.com/

John Mackey on David Senra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8zqsiePKsg

Jason Fried on David Senra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdDCtMA1gSw

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Future Of Investing In The Outdoor Industry

Mel Strong made a meaningful impression during her first appearance on the podcast, and we've got her back on the podcast again to demystify how brands can raise capital, how to speak to boards and VCs, and to answer the all-important question...should we have our own venture fund?

Show Notes:

Mel Strong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-strong/

Mel's First Second Nature Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2V0nDHyQRw

Next Ventures: https://www.nextventures.com/

TRE: https://www.therunningevent.com/

Nike ACG: http://nikeacg.com/

Oura: https://ouraring.com/

Trial Library: https://www.triallibrary.com/

Eternal: https://eternal.co/

Trucks (VC): https://www.trucks.vc/

Next Ventures Substack: https://nextventures.substack.com/

Felix Kim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/felixkim93/

Ramble Campgrounds: https://ramble.camp/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Ramble Campground: https://ramble.camp/

Path Projects - Basis Tee: https://pathprojects.com/products/basis-tee

The Courage To Be Disliked (Book): https://amzn.to/471R716

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia