We keep designing for a “normal” user.

The problem is, that person does not exist.

For neurodiverse people, that myth shows up early. In classrooms. In checklists. In systems that reward one way of thinking, one way of sitting still, one way of paying attention, one way of moving through the world.

On this episode of Second Wind, Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch talk with David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid, about neurodiversity, accessibility, AI, and the future of human-centered design.

David argues that accessibility should not be treated as an edge case or a compliance layer. It should be foundational. Because once you stop designing for the fictional average person, you can start designing for actual humans.

The conversation moves from ADHD and school systems to crash test dummies, smart workplaces, Google, Siemens, Lotus, and AI-powered customer experiences. It also gets into why ChatGPT is only the first crude interface for AI, why brands should be careful about handing their customer relationships to AI platforms, and how intelligent experiences could create more adaptive, personal, and useful interactions across digital and physical spaces.

This is a conversation about neurodiversity, inclusive design, accessibility, AI strategy, personalization, brand experience, and the future of interfaces.

In this episode, we cover

• 
  
• How neurodiversity reframes accessibility
• Why school can punish ADHD and neurodiverse people
• What crash test dummies reveal about designing for averages
• Why AI needs to move beyond the chatbot
• How brands can use AI without surrendering customer relationships
  What intelligent experiences could mean for workplaces, retail, and personalization

Guest: David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid
Hosts: Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch
Podcast: Second Wind

Marques Gartrell is Co-CCO of Wieden+Kennedy New York, the agency behind work for Nike, McDonald’s, Delta, and Michelob Ultra.

In this episode of Second Wind:

• how the Travis Scott meal started from a tweet
• why the Grimace Shake became internet folklore
• how W+K made “Horizontal Breakfast” in 7 days
• why brands are competing with childhood memories
• what young creatives get wrong
• why Marques still keeps Photoshop open

A conversation about culture, instinct, taste, speed, and making work people actually carry around with them.

The best work stops feeling like advertising and starts feeling like part of someone’s life.

Andrew McKechnie is Head of Business Creative Studio at OpenAI. Before that he was SVP and Chief Creative Officer at Verizon, where he ran a $3 billion marketing budget and built a 300-person in-house agency.

Before that he was Global Head of Design Group at Apple. Across his career he has won a Gold Cannes Lion, multiple D&AD pencils, six straight Webbys, and an Emmy nomination.

He sits down with Gully Flowers to talk about what happens when a creative decides the brief is too late, and the only way to do better work is to move upstream.

They cover what the agency model got wrong, why it was an operating issue and not a talent issue, what a real in-house team is and is not, why physical craft matters more in the AI era, and what OpenAI's merch program reveals about modern brand building.

A conversation for anyone leading creative work inside a brand, agency, or startup right now.