What do you do when a member of your family becomes a legend?

For Stephen Carter, the answer was to go looking for her.

In this episode, Carter discusses his great-aunt May Swenson, one of the most distinctive American poets of the twentieth century. Raised in Logan, Utah, in the Latter-day Saint faith, Swenson left for New York in her early twenties and built a life far beyond the expectations of her family and upbringing.

She was queer, fiercely independent, and devoted to her art. Her life and especially her loves raise fascinating questions about faith, family, desire, identity, and freedom.

Carter explores those questions in his new book, Creature: The Life and Loves of May Swenson, which grew in part from his own connection to Swenson and his desire to understand the woman behind the family legend.

In our conversation, Stephen and I talk about May’s remarkable life, her poetry and relationships, the tension between her Mormon upbringing and her queer identity, and what it means to uncover a family story that was never quite finished.

Stephen Carter is the author of Virginia Sorensen: Pioneering Mormon Author and editor of Sunstone magazine. His graphic novel, iPlates: Prophets, Priests, Rebels, and Kings (with illustrator Jett Atwood), was named one of the Association for Mormon Letters’ 100 significant works of Mormon literature, along with his edited collection, Moth and Rust: Mormon Encounters with Death. In recognition he received the 2023 Smith-Pettit Award for Outstanding Contribution to Mormon Letters. He has a PhD in narrative studies and lives in Orem, Utah, with his family.

What makes someone a prophet, and what makes someone a fraud?

In this episode, Beth Brumer-Reeve talks with author G. Thomas Burgess about his new novel, Kingdoms of the Night Sky, a fascinating exploration of faith, charismatic leaders, and our search for meaning and belonging.

Set in a near-future America, the novel follows the legacy of Isaac Snow, the prophet behind a new spiritual movement. Through his son's telling of his life, we explore how belief systems emerge, why people follow charismatic leaders, and what happens when one person's ideas transform the lives of millions.

We also talk about some of the connections to Mormonism, the nature of prophecy, and why people are drawn to movements that promise community.

Kingdoms of the Night Sky is now available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and at local bookstores.

Originally from the West Coast, G. Thomas Burgess now resides in Maryland and is an associate professor of African history. This is his first novel. You can follow him on Instagram @burgessgthomas.

How do you write deeply personal poems without revealing too much about the people you care about?

In this episode, poet David Thacker talks about his collection Some Hard Stars and the delicate work of writing about people and events that hold meaning to him.

David’s poems don’t turn away from hard topics, but they don’t leave us there either. With insight and tenderness, he reminds us to notice beauty, even in heavy moments, and to hold both loss and hope at once.

David Thacker is a recipient of the Creative Writing Award from the Western Literature Association, a Pushcart Prize Special Mention, and he was selected by Tracy K. Smith for Best New Poets. His poems have appeared in Image, The Kenyon Review, Orion, Ploughshares, Tin House, and elsewhere. He received his MFA from The University of Idaho and his PhD from Florida State University. He teaches at The Ethel Walker School, where he chairs the English Department, runs the Visiting Writer Seminar, and is the Director of Community Partnerships (a relationships-based service program). Some Hard Stars is his first book.

You can follow David on Instagram @_david_thacker