In this episode of Sustainability Wired, host Lorenzo Saa is joined by Anastasia Guha, Global Head of Sustainable and Impact Investment at Gallagher, to unpack how asset owners translate sustainability ambitions into real-world investment decisions.

Drawing on nearly two decades working across journalism, the Principles for Responsible Investment (PRI), and now investment consulting, Anastasia offers a clear, practical lens on the role of indirect asset owners, those who rely on investment managers rather than investing directly, and the complex decisions they face. From belief-setting and governance constraints to asset allocation, manager selection, and stewardship, this conversation goes beyond theory to examine what sustainable investing actually looks like inside pension funds, endowments, foundations, and wealth platforms.

Together, Lorenzo and Anastasia explore why asset owners pursue sustainability in the first place, how regulation, risk management, and mission alignment shape strategies, and where the biggest bottlenecks lie, particularly time, governance capacity, and structural limitations. They also draw a sharp distinction between sustainable investing and impact, challenge simplistic narratives around net zero commitments, and argue for far greater nuance as markets enter a more volatile phase.

• ✅ Why asset owners adopt sustainable investment strategies, and why motives differ
• ✅ Translating beliefs into strategy, asset allocation, and manager selection
• ✅ Governance and time constraints as the real limiting factors
• ✅ The role of trustees, consultants, and stewardship in implementation
• ✅ Sustainability vs impact: different objectives, tools, and asset classes
• ✅ Why private markets and impact face structural scaling challenges
• ✅ Defined benefit vs defined contribution: very different realities
• ✅ Net zero targets, market volatility, and unintended consequences
• ✅ Why nuance matters more than initiatives and labels
• ✅ Manager selection, factor exposure, and financial fundamentals
• ✅ Entering markets during dislocation: risks and opportunities

Whether you’re an asset owner, trustee, consultant, or sustainability professional, this episode offers a grounded view of how sustainable investing actually works, and where expectations need to be recalibrated.

🎧 Listen now for a candid discussion on why sustainability strategy is as much about governance and realism as it is about ambition.

• 00:00 – Why Sustainable Investing Looks Different for Asset Owners
• 02:45 – Anastasia’s Journey into Sustainable Investing and Consulting
• 06:40 – Why Asset Owners Adopt Sustainability Strategies
• 10:30 – Regulation, Risk, and Regional Differences
• 14:20 – From Beliefs to Strategy: Setting Sustainability Objectives
• 19:10 – Governance, Trustees, and the Reality of Implementation
• 24:40 – Stewardship in Practice: Asset Owners and Managers
• 29:50 – Sustainability vs Impact: A Critical Distinction
• 36:10 – Asset Classes, Time Horizons, and Governance Constraints
• 43:30 – What Needs to Change for Sustainable Investing to Scale

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In this timely episode of Sustainability Wired, host Lorenzo Saa is joined by Dan Neale, Social Lead in the Responsible Investment Team at the Church Commissioners for England, to explore one of the most contested questions in sustainable finance today: how should investors think about defence?

With a background spanning responsible investment, human rights consulting, and service in the Royal Navy and NATO, Dan brings a rare, grounded perspective to a debate often dominated by headlines and binaries. As geopolitics reshapes capital flows, from the war in Ukraine to rising defence budgets across Europe, the conversation unpacks the crucial distinction between investing responsibly in defence-related companies and labelling defence as “sustainable.”

Together, Lorenzo and Dan examine how investor policies are shifting, why regulatory frameworks and taxonomies have accelerated the debate, and where the real risks, and responsibilities, sit for asset owners and managers. From geographic screening thresholds and human rights due diligence to dual-use technologies, controversial weapons, and emerging principles for responsible defence investment, this episode offers a nuanced, practical lens on an issue many investors are now being forced to confront.

✅ Defence vs sustainability: why the distinction matters

✅ How geopolitics and regulation are reshaping investor approaches

✅ The Church Commissioners’ updated defence policy and geographic thresholds

✅ Why screening alone is not enough without due diligence

✅ Dual-use technologies and the blurred lines between civilian and military applications

✅ Controversial weapons, nuclear risk, and red lines for investors

✅ Data gaps, transparency challenges, and conflict-affected areas

✅ Principles for Responsible Defence Investment (PRDI): what they are, and what they are not

✅ AI, drones, and the realities of tech-driven warfare

✅ Human rights responsibilities under international humanitarian law

Whether you’re an asset owner, investment manager, policymaker, or sustainability professional, this episode offers a clear framework for thinking about defence, not as a moral abstraction, but as a responsible investment challenge that requires judgment, data, and accountability.

🎧 Listen now to understand why defence may not be “sustainable”, but why responsibility still matters.



• Introduction: Defense Meets Sustainable Investing (0:48)
• Dan Neil's Background: From Navy to Responsible Investment (2:27)
• The Changing Landscape: Europe's Defense Investment Shift (4:42)
• Is Defense a Sustainable Investment? (6:18)
• Church Commissioners' Policy Changes (8:44)
• Dual Use Technology and the Defense Supply Chain (15:26)
• Controversial Weapons and Nuclear Arms (17:56)
• Principles for Responsible Defense Investment (PRDI) (27:22)
• Human Rights Data and Due Diligence Challenges (33:42)
• AI, Technology, and the Future of Warfare (38:38)

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In this wide-ranging and timely episode of Sustainability Wired, host Lorenzo Sáa is joined by Ioannis Ioannou, Associate Professor of Strategy and Entrepreneurship at London Business School. The pair reflect on what the ESG backlash of 2025 has revealed, and what it means for investors, companies, and policymakers heading into 2026.

Drawing on nearly two decades of academic research at the intersection of sustainability, corporate strategy, and financial markets, Ioannis offers a clear-eyed assessment of where sustainable investing has fallen short, where it has matured, and how it must now evolve. From green washing and fragmented regulation to regionalisation, data quality, and the limits of ESG ratings, this conversation goes beyond surface-level narratives to explore sustainability as a political economy and systems challenge.

Together, Lorenzo and Ioannis unpack why backlash was inevitable, how it exposed genuine commitment (and lack thereof), and why the next phase of sustainable investing will be defined by resilience, governance, and long-term system change rather than short-term compliance.

Key topics include:

• ✅ 2025 as the year of “peak ESG backlash”, and what we learned from it
• ✅ Why sustainability progress is non-linear and politically contested
• ✅ Green hushing vs. credible communication: why silence is not the answer
• ✅ Regionalisation and policy fragmentation in global decarbonisation
• ✅ How investors can identify real commitment beyond ESG scores
• ✅ The evolving role, and limits, of ESG data and ratings
• ✅ Why adaptation, nature, and social issues must rise alongside climate
• ✅ Coalitions, alliances, and the future of collective action
• ✅ “Trap competencies”: undervalued skills and capabilities for a sustainable economy
• ✅ AI and technology through a sustainability governance lens
• ✅ The skills sustainability professionals will need in 2026 and beyond

Whether you’re an investor navigating regulatory uncertainty, a sustainability leader facing internal scepticism, or a policymaker grappling with coordination challenges, this episode offers thoughtful guidance on how to move forward with clarity and conviction.

🎧 Listen now for a grounded, research-led perspective on what sustainable investing needs next.

Key Moments:

• 0:00 - Introduction & Guest Background
• 7:01 - 2025: The Year of Peak Backlash
• 15:26 - System-Level Investing & Regional Fragmentation
• 24:39 - Looking Ahead: 2026 Predictions
• 28:11 - Net Zero Coalitions & Alliances
• 33:07 - Sustainability Careers & Trapped Competencies
• 40:00 - Message to Investors & AI Governance
• 46:00 - Quick Fire Questions & Closing

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