Joining us this episode is Claudio Finol, Chief Innovation and Strategy Officer at Fyffes — one of the world's leading fresh produce companies, owned by Japan's Sumitomo Corporation. An engineer by training with an MBA from Alliance Manchester Business School, where he also teaches, Claudio has led innovation and strategy across Chiquita, Danone, FrieslandCampina, and McBride. He brings a rare cross-industry lens to the discipline — part academic, part practitioner — and a conviction that strategy should sit far closer to execution than most strategy offices allow. In this conversation, we explore why the pursuit of stability, the very thing most strategy functions are built to deliver, may be the hidden weakness that brings an organisation down.
Things we will cover:

The Icarus principle applied to strategy, and why over-reliance on stability is more dangerous than over-reliance on strength
Why adaptability is less about managing change and more about constantly challenging the assumptions beneath every plan
The tension between efficiency and resilience, and why real resilience demands a degree of redundancy by design
The "velocity of risk" — not just how big a threat is, but how fast it can surface, from steady regulation to a blind side like DeepSeek
How to reframe risk as opportunity, and why the risk function and strategy function need to work in concert
Reconciling a fast-moving external environment with long-horizon ownership expectations
The Chief Strategy Officer as "chief reminder officer" — keeper of a living, adaptive process rather than the executor of a fixed plan

From the Icarus principle to the chief reminder officer, Claudio draws on experience across some of the world's best-known consumer and industrial brands to make a grounded case that the real work of strategy is never finished — because the assumptions underneath every plan are always shifting.
Episode Timeline:

Additional Resources:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claudiofinol/
Fyffes: https://www.fyffes.com
Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
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Thank you to our guest Claudio Finol for such a thoughtful and genuinely practical conversation.

• Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
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Joanne Sheppard is a strategic advisor to the Holzbrinck Group — the German family holding company behind Macmillan Publishers, Springer Nature, and Die Zeit — and a board member across several of its owned and invested companies. Her career spans publishing, M&A, and corporate strategy, and she brings an unusually wide lens to her work: graduate study in English literature, executive education in AI and innovation at MIT, positive psychology from Penn, and board governance through INSEAD.

In this conversation, we explore why AI adoption stalls inside large organisations — and why the answer has far less to do with technology than most leaders assume.

Things we will cover:

• Why AI adoption is fundamentally a change management problem, not a technology problem
• How to build the psychological safety that makes experimentation and upskilling possible
• What IKEA and JP Morgan can teach us about bringing employees along on the journey
• How to think about reinvesting the productivity AI frees up — and why that decision deserves a quarterly board conversation
• The architects, bridgers, and catalysts framework for understanding the role of leadership in driving adoption

From employee resistance to board-level strategy, Joanne draws on real experience inside a complex, decentralised organisation to offer one of the most grounded and human-centred perspectives on AI adoption you'll hear.

• Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
• Follow us on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/outthinker-networks

Today’s guest is Adam Zalisk, Chief Strategy Officer at Amplify — a pioneer in K–12 education since 2000. Today, Amplify serves more than 10 million students across all 50 U.S. states, delivering next-generation curriculum and formative assessment in ELA, math, and science.

In this conversation, Adam reflects on what changes when strategy becomes a formal role inside a growing organization. Rather than treating strategy as a static plan, he frames it as a set of clear commitments tied to an explicit end state — and explains why ambiguity around those commitments is often what causes companies to struggle as they scale. He also introduces a practical framework for understanding why strategy offices emerge in the first place, helping leaders distinguish between different strategic needs and translate strategic thinking into real organizational traction.

Things we’ll cover:

• How Adam defines strategy in growth-stage companies
• The four distinct reasons organizations create a strategy office
• What leaders are actually looking for when they say, “we need strategy”
• How a strategy office avoids becoming an internal order-taker
• Where strategy functions most often lose — or earn — credibility

This episode is a practical guide for CSOs navigating growth, ambiguity, and rising organizational complexity. If you’re wrestling with focus, alignment, or execution as your organization scales, this conversation will sharpen how you think about the role — and the impact — of strategy.

• Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
• Follow us on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/outthinker-networks

Neil Hoyne joins Kaihan Krippendorff to unpack why most strategy failures aren’t caused by a lack of data — they’re caused by organizations asking the wrong questions, setting the wrong standards, and rewarding the wrong behaviors.

Neil is Google’s Chief Strategist and the bestselling author of Converted. In this conversation, he shares how he thinks about strategy as an incremental discipline: keeping the business alive today while moving it into a stronger position tomorrow.

They explore how leaders unintentionally turn metrics into theatre, why “more measurement” often becomes a coping mechanism, and how to set decision standards that match the speed of your competitive environment. The conversation also examines where AI can amplify strategic confusion, and how CSOs can keep strategy anchored in what customers actually value.

Things we’ll cover:
How Neil defines strategy as survival + positioning
Product-led vs customer-led models (and the role marketing plays in each)
Customer lifetime value and what it changes in enterprise strategy
Why common metrics aren’t comparable (even when they share the same name)
The “manipulation test” to reveal weak KPIs
How leaders override data — and how to design better decision standards
Why AI adoption fails when strategy is unclear

Learn more about Outthinker’s community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
Follow us on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/outthinker-networks

• Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
• Follow us on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/outthinker-networks

Today’s guest is Adam Zalisk, Chief Strategy Officer at Amplify — a pioneer in K–12 education since 2000. Today, Amplify serves more than 10 million students across all 50 U.S. states, delivering next-generation curriculum and formative assessment in ELA, math, and science.

In this conversation, Adam reflects on what changes when strategy becomes a formal role inside a growing organization. Rather than treating strategy as a static plan, he frames it as a set of clear commitments tied to an explicit end state — and explains why ambiguity around those commitments is often what causes companies to struggle as they scale. He also introduces a practical framework for understanding why strategy offices emerge in the first place, helping leaders distinguish between different strategic needs and translate strategic thinking into real organizational traction.

Things we’ll cover:

• How Adam defines strategy in growth-stage companies
• The four distinct reasons organizations create a strategy office
• What leaders are actually looking for when they say, “we need strategy”
• How a strategy office avoids becoming an internal order-taker
• Where strategy functions most often lose — or earn — credibility

This episode is a practical guide for CSOs navigating growth, ambiguity, and rising organizational complexity. If you’re wrestling with focus, alignment, or execution as your organization scales, this conversation will sharpen how you think about the role — and the impact — of strategy.

• Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
• Follow us on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/outthinker-networks

Today’s guest is Michael Drexler, Chief Strategy Officer at Brightstar Capital Partners, a private equity firm that invests in closely held, middle-market businesses and helps them scale into professional, process-driven organizations.

Michael’s career spans leadership roles across investment banking, global strategy, and private equity—from Barclays to the World Economic Forum, and Brightstar Capital Partners—giving him a rare perspective on how strategy functions evolve as companies mature from founder-led to institutional scale.

In this conversation, we unpack lessons from Michael’s career leading strategy functions and explore how the head of strategy role transforms along a company’s growth journey.

Things we will cover:

• How strategy evolves from a “chief of staff” role in founder-led companies to a full-fledged internal consulting function
• The mindset shift from advising a single CEO to influencing a broader leadership team
• How to build and sustain an effective strategy team—including Michael’s “2-to-4-year rotation” and “no bad news for two weeks” rules
• Why private equity firms view internal strategy functions differently—and how to reposition your team in a PE environment
• Michael’s four-step framework for prioritizing projects that’s “never failed him once”

From developing consulting-style skillsets inside corporations to balancing neutrality among competing executives, Michael brings clarity and practicality to what it means to be an effective CSO.

• Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
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In this episode, Cisco’s Chief Strategy Officer Ammar Maraqa joins host Kaihan Krippendorff to discuss how one of the world’s largest technology companies is evolving its strategy to lead the next wave of AI and digital infrastructure.

From building AI-ready data centers to fostering intrapreneurship through Outshift, Cisco is reimagining how strategy, innovation, and execution come together. Ammar shares lessons from his experience leading Cisco’s strategy organization and shaping its innovation portfolio across build, buy, partner, and incubate pathways.

Topics Covered

• Cisco’s strategy for the AI and digital infrastructure era
• How the Strategy Office connects long-term vision with execution
• Building AI-ready data centers and enabling digital resilience
• The meaning of agentic AI and its impact on enterprise productivity
• How Cisco’s Outshift incubator drives internal innovation
• Cisco’s approach to build, buy, partner, and incubate innovation
• The difference between a “push” and “pull” model in corporate strategy teams
• Why resource allocation is the truest test of strategic clarity

Key Quotes

Resources Mentioned

• Cisco Outshift (https://outshift.cisco.com)
• Cisco’s Digital Resilience framework
• Outthinker Networks (https://outthinker.com)

• Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
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In this special in-person conversation recorded at Adobe’s global headquarters, Kaihan continues his discussion with Malte Bernholz, Vice President of Corporate Strategy and Incubator at Adobe.

In Part One, on our sister show Outthinkers, Malte explored the macro trends transforming creativity, technology, and business in the age of AI. Click the link below to watch part 1 if you havent already. https://youtu.be/pYoIvvb0SGc

Now, in Part Two, we go deeper—inside Adobe’s strategic engine—to learn how this global innovator designs its own future.

Malte shares:

• How Adobe has reorganized around three audience groups—business professionals and consumers, creative professionals, and marketing professionals—to better align innovation with customer needs
• How his team leads corporate strategy and incubation, balancing “looking around the corner” with accelerating high-priority initiatives
• How the Adobe Incubator fosters entrepreneurship within the company, empowering small internal teams to build the next generation of product – and the early outcomes of that work, from Firefly Boards to Project Pulsar and beyond

Part one on OUTTHINKERS: https://youtu.be/pYoIvvb0SGc

• Learn more about Outthinker's community of chief strategy officers - https://outthinker.com/
• Follow us on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/outthinker-networks