Episodes

  • Why Thomas Doubted (and Why We Might Too) with Dr. Vincent Bacote

    Why Thomas Doubted (and Why We Might Too) with Dr. Vincent Bacote
    Jan 22 2026
    In this episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie Penn sits down with Dr. Vincent Bacote, Professor of Theology and Director for the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College. They delve into the oft-told story of “doubting” Thomas from the Bible, exploring why John included this pivotal moment in his gospel and what it reveals about Jesus's patience and understanding of human doubt. Dr. Bacote encourages listeners to re-familiarize themselves with the awe and significance of the resurrection, discussing how to navigate moments of wavering faith and the profound truth that “death is a comma, not a period,” for believers. He also touches on the historicity of the resurrection and the unique claims of Christianity regarding Jesus’s life, death, and ascension.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “Sometimes we need help to be hopeful. And here's an example of Jesus helping Thomas to believe [He was back from the dead]. He says, ‘Here I am, you can put your hand here.’” - Dr. Vincent Bacote

    "Recognizing the fact that [the resurrection] is such a singular, history changing event, and staying in awe of that is really important. One of the ways we can keep that awe, if we’re over-familiarized, is thinking about where Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that more than 500 people saw him at one time." - Dr. Vincent Bacote

    “I think the truth of the resurrection is to give Christians the confidence that death is a comma and not a period.” - Dr. Vincent Bacote

    Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
    Black + Evangelical Documentary
    “Born Toward Dying” article by Richard John Neuhaus

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    Dr. Vincent Bacote’s Website
    Dr. Vincent Bacote’s Instagram
    Dr. Vincent Bacote’s X
    Dr. Vincent Bacote’s Facebook

    Connect with Melanie:
    The Rising (Album)
    Website
    Facebook
    Instagram
    YouTube
    Spotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    22 mins
  • “Liar, Lunatic or Lord?” Foundations of the Resurrection ft. J.D. Greear

    “Liar, Lunatic or Lord?” Foundations of the Resurrection ft. J.D. Greear
    Jan 15 2026
    Pastor J.D. Greear, leader of the rapidly growing Summit Church and author of Everyday Revolutionary: How to Transcend the Culture War and Transform the World, discusses faith amid today’s polarized culture. Drawing from biblical insights, he emphasizes the resurrection as the pivotal answer to doubt and suffering, stating, “Faith is accepting what you cannot understand based on what you can understand.” Greear highlights the ongoing experiential role of the Holy Spirit and advocates earnestly desiring spiritual gifts without chasing signs. Addressing apologetics, he outlines common questions believers face and defends the resurrection’s historical accuracy as foundational to Christian hope.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “My favorite definition of faith is accepting what you cannot understand based on what you can understand. You can understand the resurrection and the resurrection gives you the ability to trust God and the things you don't understand.” - J.D. Greear

    “What Jesus is saying is there's something about the Holy Spirit in your experience with Him that's supposed to be greater. You would actually choose that over just Me in front of you. If you had the choice.” - J.D. Greear

    “In light of the resurrection, if the resurrection is true, then your doubt, whatever it is, it's not pointing you to something that is actually a problem. It just means something you don't quite understand right now.” - J.D. Greear

    “The idea that a bunch of blue collar fishermen who had not been trained in any of this kind of resistance maintained till their dying day they'd seen Jesus raised from the dead all the while knowing that it really wasn't true. He said that pushes reason to the point of almost absurdity.” - J.D. Greear

    Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
    Everyday Revolutionary: How to Transcend the Culture War and Transform the World by J.D. Greear

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    J.D. Greear’s website
    J.D. Greear’s Facebook
    J.D. Greear’s Instagram
    J.D. Greear’s X
    J.D. Greear’s YouTube

    Connect with Melanie:
    The Rising (Album)
    Website
    Facebook
    Instagram
    YouTube
    Spotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    26 mins
  • The Resurrection: Science Fiction or Historical Fact? Ft. Sam Allberry

    The Resurrection: Science Fiction or Historical Fact? Ft. Sam Allberry
    Jan 8 2026
    Pastor, apologist, and author Sam Allberry joins The Rising to talk with Melanie Penn about faith, doubt, and the hope we find in the resurrection of Jesus. Sam shares his journey from skeptic to pastor, how he thinks about offering hospitality to those who struggle with belief, and why the resurrection is both the most “absurd” and the most compelling truth at the heart of Christianity. Together, Melanie and Sam explore what it means to be in Christ, how the cross unites us to God and to one another, and why the evidence for the resurrection points to more than just reason—it points to a living hope.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “I think when it comes to the resurrection in particular, to a thoughtful skeptic, it still sounds very absurd. It does sound science fiction-y, and I’m very conscious of that. I want to try to show how historically, philosophically, in as many ways as I can, that actually it’s more absurd to not believe in it, given what we see and know.” - Sam Allberry

    “Evidence alone is not going to generate faith in someone. That doesn’t mean I don’t present the evidence. I present the evidence, but pray that the Lord would use it to spark faith in someone.” - Sam Allberry

    “There’s a resurrection-shaped hole in human history, but it’s hard to account for otherwise. There’s so many other reasons to suppose Jesus is alive today.” - Sam Allberry

    “When we come to Christ in faith, we become one with Him. That the most common New Testament way of describing a Christian believer is to call them someone who is in Christ.” - Sam Allberry

    Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
    One With My Lord by Sam Allberry
    Jesus and the Rise of Early Christianity by Paul Barnett
    The Crucified King by Jeremy Treat

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    Sam Allberry’s website
    Sam Allberry’s Facebook
    Sam Allberry’s Instagram
    Sam Allberry’s YouTube

    Connect with Melanie:
    The Rising (Album)
    Website
    Facebook
    Instagram
    YouTube
    Spotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    21 mins
  • The Breath of New Life: From Death to Divine Union ft. Trevin Wax & Thomas West

    The Breath of New Life: From Death to Divine Union ft. Trevin Wax & Thomas West
    Jan 1 2026
    In this captivating episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie Penn sits down with authors Thomas West and Trevin Wax to explore the profound implications of Jesus’ ascension and the resurrection for humanity today. Drawing from their new book, The Gospel Way Catechism, Trevin and Thomas delve into how the resurrection is not merely a past event, but a “new beginning” of God’s new creation, impacting our present and future. They discuss how Jesus’ resurrected body offers a glimpse into a “new way of being human” and challenge our perceptions of heaven as a distant place, describing it instead as God’s “dimension of reality” that is “closer than we realize.” Discover how the unseen realm of heaven and earth will ultimately be one, and how our yearning for immortality is fulfilled in Christ’s gift of eternal life, a truth worth staking everything on.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“It's not just that by coming back from the dead, Jesus assures us a heavenly afterlife. It's that this new creation that has happened here is connected to the resurrection of our physical bodies when we will be made like Him. Me recognizing how my future resurrection is grounded in, tied up with and united to Jesus and His physical resurrection makes the story so much more compelling.” - Trevin Wax“We have so much that we're looking forward to in the future, but God is presently doing a new thing right now. What a wild truth to let your heart and mind start to rise up to. I think it invades the present now with wonderful potential, wonderful hope. We're in the middle of a new thing.” - Thomas West“The resurrection is not the happy ending after Jesus' crucifixion on Good Friday. It is the new beginning of God's new creation.” - Trevin Wax “I think marketers know something that Augustine would have said or that other people have known throughout history is that we yearn for immortality. We yearn for eternity. Eternity is written in our hearts. And that's why people can sell stuff to us for that.” - Trevin WaxLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:The Gospel Way Catechism: 50 Truths That Take On the World*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel! *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Trevin Wax’s websiteThomas West’s websiteTrevin Wax’s FacebookThomas West’s Facebook Thomas West’s InstagramTrevin Wax’s TwitterThomas West’s TwitterConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    24 mins
  • Christmas: The Hope of Resurrection to Come ft. Sally-Lloyd Jones

    Christmas: The Hope of Resurrection to Come ft. Sally-Lloyd Jones
    Dec 25 2025
    In this Christmas episode of The Rising, host Melanie Penn talks with acclaimed author Sally Lloyd-Jones, best known for The Jesus Storybook Bible and her latest release, Jesus Our True Friend: Stories to Fill Your Heart with Joy. Sally shares how she approaches writing about the life of Jesus in a way that’s both imaginative and true, and how the story of Christmas points forward to the hope of the Resurrection. She and Melanie discuss the creative process behind telling familiar stories in fresh ways, the importance of limits in art, and why wonder still matters.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “When you’re writing a story, it’s like an iceberg. You just see the top of it, but underneath, what you don’t see is the huge iceberg underneath the water. That is all the stuff you don’t put in the story, but is informing everything about the story.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones

    “Limits are actually your friends because they force you to be really distilled.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones

    “When I’m writing, it comes from being moved myself. Whether it’s a Bible story or a story about a goldfish—whatever it is, it’s ultimately worship.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones

    “Our job is to have our imaginations on fire and write from a place of truth. And then the mystery of it is that if you’re telling the truth, you’re not putting it on, you are not faking it, then it will have power and the power miraculously will come to the reader.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones

    “Write the story only you can write. That means everything about your life, what you’ve written, read, where you grew up, your background—everything will feed into what will make you unique.” - Sally Lloyd-Jones

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    Sally Lloyd-Jones’ website
    Sally Lloyd-Jones’ Facebook
    Sally Lloyd-Jones’ Instagram
    Sally Lloyd-Jones’ YouTube
    The Story of God’s Great Love YouTube
    The Story of God’s Great Love Instagram
    The Story of God’s Great Love Facebook


    Connect with Melanie:
    The Rising (Album)
    Website
    Facebook
    Instagram
    YouTube
    Spotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    25 mins
  • Resurrection and Reconciliation: Bridging Divides with Saleem Shalash

    Resurrection and Reconciliation: Bridging Divides with Saleem Shalash
    Dec 18 2025
    In this episode of The Rising, Melanie interviews Pastor Saleem Shalash, founder of Jesus the King Church in Nazareth and leader of the largest Israeli-Arab humanitarian aid center, supported by the Joseph Project. Saleem discusses how his ministry bridges ethnic and religious divides by assisting both Arab and Jewish families. He emphasizes the transformative power of faith, grounded in both Old and New Testament teachings, and the importance of tailoring the gospel message for Muslim and Jewish audiences. He shares miraculous accounts of healing and dreams revealing Jesus. Amid escalating regional tensions, Saleem advocates for unity over doctrinal disagreements, stressing the importance of compassion and winning hearts rather than just minds.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I do believe in the verse that says ‘All things work together for the good for those who love the Lord.’ You know, we don’t see all of the puzzle, but when God knows every part of this puzzle and where it’s placed, He is going to take care to put it in the right place.” - Saleem Shalash“We need to understand, it’s not about who we are, it’s about who He is. It’s not about what we are doing for God. It’s all about what God did for us through the cross and the resurrection.” - Saleem Shalash“It’s not time to win discussions more than it’s time to win souls to Jesus. And that is the mission of what we’re trying to do.” - Saleem Shalash“There is a lot of work to do. The work is not inside the church. The work is outside the walls of the church. Everyone can be a believer in the church. Show me that you are a believer outside the walls of the church. People will look at you and say ‘There is something different in this man.’ What is the difference? Jesus in his life." - Saleem ShalashGuest’s Links:The Joseph Project International WebsiteSaleem Shalash About PageThe Joseph Project International FacebookSaleem Shalash Instagram The Joseph Project XSaleem Shalash speaking at a conference (YouTube)Home of the Jesus King Church (Israel)JTK Bridge Builders U.S. Support Site*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel! *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Connect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    24 mins
  • Why Jesus’ Scars Remain (and What They Tell Us) with Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell

    Why Jesus’ Scars Remain (and What They Tell Us) with Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell
    Dec 11 2025
    This week on The Rising, Melanie Penn sits down with Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell to explore the profound theological implications of Jesus’ scars and the bodily resurrection. Dr. Meynell, a distinguished pastor, writer, and former associate director of Langham Preaching, unpacks how the resurrection is not merely a historical event, but a radical redefinition of life, death, and our very embodiment. Discover why Jesus’ enduring scars are not a sign of weakness, but a testament to a unique, eternal victory. From the Genesis narrative of death as a “protective measure” to Peter's restoration and the distinct nature of Christian resurrection, this conversation brings understanding as to why Jesus’ physical return from death—and the indwelling of the same Spirit that raised Him—offers an unparalleled source of hope and power for every believer.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “I began to recognize that Jesus is alive. And so then you have to say, ‘Well, how is he alive if he was killed on a cross?’ He came to life.” - Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell

    “Because it is a resurrection, not a resuscitation. It is not a cycle. He doesn’t come back out of death; He goes through death never to do it again.” - Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell

    “Theology is not about pumping your brain with data and knowledge. It’s about knowing Christ, knowing what He’s done for us. That’s the engine room of theology.” - Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell

    “The same spirit who raised Jesus from the dead lives in us.” - Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell

    Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
    Life After Life by Mark Meynell

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell’s Website
    Rev. Dr. Mark Meynell’s Instagram

    Connect with Melanie:
    The Rising (Album)
    Website
    Facebook
    Instagram
    YouTube
    Spotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    21 mins
  • Love’s Victory Through the Resurrection: A Conversation with Rev. Chris & Jenny Lee

    Love’s Victory Through the Resurrection: A Conversation with Rev. Chris & Jenny Lee
    Dec 4 2025
    This week on The Rising, we have a heartwarming conversation with Rev. Chris Lee and his wife, Jenny. Melanie and the Lees delve into the profound mystery of the resurrection, exploring personal moments of belief and the most compelling narratives from the Gospels. They discuss how the seemingly "wild thing to believe" in Jesus's literal resurrection is, for Chris and Jenny, a deeply personal and tangible reality. They share insights into why the differing accounts of the resurrection in the Gospels actually strengthen its credibility, and how the disciples' transformation from fear to fearless martyrdom speaks volumes. From Mary Magdalene's personal encounter with the resurrected Christ to the ongoing presence of Jesus in our daily lives, this episode explores the enduring hope and transformative power of the resurrection.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “The resurrected Jesus allows us to understand that God knows us and calls us by our name.” - Chris Lee

    “The resurrection is a signpost that no one is too far—no one is outside of God’s grace and power.” - Chris Lee

    “You need infinity to pin down all the nuances of the resurrection.” - Jenny Lee

    Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
    “You Are Beloved” book by Jenny & Rev Chris Lee
    Peter and John Running to the Tomb painting by Eugène Burnand

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    Rev Chris Lee’s Website
    Rev Chris Lee’s Facebook
    Rev Chris Lee’s Instagram
    Rev Chris Lee’s X
    Rev Chris Lee’s YouTube

    Connect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    26 mins