Jon and Kory discuss why the metrics designed to improve performance can sometimes lead businesses in exactly the wrong direction.

Kory explains why e.l.f. does not tie compensation directly to KPIs, and why misaligned targets can discourage creativity, distort decision-making and even put good people at risk.

They also tackle a growing leadership problem: treating KPIs as instructions rather than information. How high should targets be? When do they create useful focus, and when do they become a ceiling? And what should leaders use instead when the work requires judgement, experimentation and long-term thinking?

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:01 - Do KPIs kill creativity?
02:56 - Goodhart’s law
03:31 - Why e.l.f. do not have compensation based KPIs
06:50 - Why misaligned KPIs can get you fired
09:37 - Can KPIs hold you back?
13:25 - People are using KPIs like AI
14:19 - How high should you set KPIs
16:19 - The better way to approach KPIs
19:09 - Are KPIs out?

Jon and Kory discuss why humour is a serious advantage for brands, leaders and anyone trying to earn attention. They explore the science behind why humour makes ideas more memorable, why funny advertising has become less common, and the important difference between trying to be amusing and using humour to reveal a truth.

The conversation looks at what it takes to create the conditions for humour to thrive: giving people permission to take creative risks, planning for it rather than treating it as an afterthought, and understanding why brands such as Liquid Death make it look effortless.

A useful case for taking the work seriously, without always taking yourself quite so seriously.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:44 - The serious case for humour
03:46 - The science behind humour
04:48 - Why humour is good for brands
06:28 - Why we are seeing less funny ads
09:23 - Humour touches on truth
11:17 - How to create the conditions for humour to thrive
14:25 - Why the best brands plan humour
17:38 - Why Liquid Death are so funny
19:37 - Can you use humour in a business context?

Jon and Kory discuss why persuasion is one of the most important, and overlooked, skills in leadership.

Getting an idea approved is rarely about delivering the perfect argument in a meeting. It starts earlier: asking better questions, listening closely, understanding what different people need, and finding the stories that make an idea feel relevant rather than imposed.

They explore the role of verbal and non-verbal communication, why the meeting is never really just the meeting, and how to build support before a decision is formally on the table. Kory also shares practical lessons from winning over her own board, persuading an organisation to take risks, and turning advocates into people who will sell the idea when you are not in the room.

A practical episode for leaders who need to influence without forcing, build alignment without endless consensus, and give their best ideas a genuine chance of happening.

Links

• The Storyteller's Secret Book

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:56 - Is persuasion one of the secrets to being a successful leader?
02:24 - The importance of asking questions
05:00 - The art of listening
08:09 - Verbal and non verbal communication
10:49 - The power of communicating through stories
13:43 - The meeting is never actually the meeting
17:26 - How Kory sold So Many Dicks to her board
20:08 - Pursauding your company to take risks
21:17 - Getting advocates to sell your idea
26:03 - Identifying your leverage