No guest, no Reddit story, no agenda. Just Pinaki, Chris, and Bree catching up after a packed stretch of conference season, and somehow landing on some of the most useful thinking they've shared all year.

In this Between the Seasons episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, the three of them recap a whirlwind week at IABC World Conference in Toronto, Comms Reboot, and a string of events that all pointed at the same lesson: people are done being talked at. The best sessions, the best workplaces, and the best events are the ones that make people want to show up, not the ones that make them.

Pinaki recaps The Dance Floor Doesn't Lie, the talk where he and Monique Zitnik literally DJed live on stage to teach communicators about reading the room. Chris makes the case for abandoning 'best practices' and 'consumer-grade' experiences in favor of genuinely human ones. And Bree shares the airport story you have to hear to believe: 45 teenagers, one missed flight, zero parents.

In this episode, they discuss:
• The Dance Floor Doesn't Lie: what DJs and communicators have in common, and why playing for yourself empties the room
• Why 'consumer-grade experience' is a depressingly low bar for how we treat employees
• Abandoning best practices and best-in-class, being the fastest snail isn't the goal
• Why mandating attendance never works, and how to make people want to show up instead
• Messaging is what you say. Storytelling is how you say it to make people feel something.
• The case for in-person: the true self comes out when people are together
• Bree's airport story (45 teenagers, one flight, no parents)
• Chris on 25 years of marriage and giving luck the credit it deserves

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Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible.

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

Someone posts on the consulting subreddit: they wake up every morning with a literal pit in their stomach knowing they have to deal with their client. Seven weeks in. Belittled, micromanaged, undermined, expectations that shift by the hour. The title of the post: Is Walking Away From a Toxic Client Admitting Defeat?

In this Reacting to Reddit at Work episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee bring back Chuck Gose, founder of ICology and co-host of the Frequency podcast, to react to a difficult-client story that turns out to have a very telling update.

Chuck immediately asks the question nobody in the thread is asking: what would the client be writing if they posted on Reddit? Because this is a relationship, and we're only hearing one side. Pinaki names the pit in the stomach for what it actually is. And Bree reveals a detail from a month later that confirms what Chuck suspected from the very first read.

In this episode, they discuss:
• The difference between a challenging client and an unreasonable, adversarial one
• Why this is a relationship, and what the client would be posting on their own Reddit thread
• The person versus the entity, and how pressure from above gets funneled down to you
• Why the pit in your stomach isn't the start of burnout, it is burnout
• Big C communication: the candid, in-person conversation you owe the relationship before you walk away
• Whether walking away from a toxic client is actually defeat (it isn't)
• Raising the flag early and never feeling alone in a consultancy
• The question that cuts to the core: are we even the right fit for each other?
• Why everyone wants to be the one who does the breakup, not the one broken up with

Plus a Reddit update that tells you everything you need to know about how this one ended.

This is a companion to last week's topic episode on difficult clients, also with Chuck Gose. Listen to them together for the full picture. And check out Chuck's podcast Frequency, co-hosted with Jenni Field, wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday.

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Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible.

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.

When a client relationship turns difficult, it almost never starts with the thing you're actually arguing about. There's a manager behind the scenes applying pressure. An organizational fire nobody told you about. A misalignment of expectations that was there from day one. The minutiae you're debating is just the surface.

In this Between the Seasons episode of Why Does It Feel So Wrong to Be Human at Work?, Pinaki Kathiari and Chris Lee bring back Chuck Gose, founder of ICology and co-host of the Frequency podcast, to talk about working with difficult clients. Chuck, by his own correction, does not push people. He elevates them to greatness.

They get into what actually makes a relationship 'difficult' (usually misaligned expectations or personalities, not bad people), why your instinct to defend yourself makes everything worse, how a Batman figurine in your background can build more connection than any pitch deck, and the difference between failure and being wrong, that Chuck argues most people get completely backwards.

In this episode, they discuss:
• Why a difficult client is usually a misalignment of expectations or personalities, not a bad person
• Breaking the ice with levity when things get tense, and why almost nothing you do is brain surgery
• The relationship as a third living thing in the room that you both shape
• Why the issue at hand is rarely the actual issue
• How defensiveness triggers defensiveness, and how to break the loop
• Chuck on why failure and wrong are not the same thing, and what science gets right about it
• Connection as the bedrock that gets you through the rough patches (yes, your Zoom background counts)
• When to walk away from a client, and why the best exits happen together

Plus: Chuck has a notebook of things he's been right about. Pinaki wants one too.

Heads up: Pinaki and Chuck Gose are presenting together for the first time at IABC World Conference in Toronto. 'Communication in Motion: The Science Behind Messages That Move People' on June 15 at 1:30. Pinaki is also presenting 'The Dance Floor Doesn't Lie: What Communicators Can Learn From DJs' with Monique Zytnik on June 16 at 3:00. Plus Comms Reboot, the unconference hosted by Jenni Fields of Redefining Communications. Links in the episode description.

Check out Comms Reboot here.
Learn more about IABC World Conference here.
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Connect with Us

Pinaki Kathiari – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Chris Lee – LinkedIn | Gallagher Communication

Bree Bartos – LinkedIn | Local Wisdom

Special thanks to digital communication agency Local Wisdom (www.localwisdom.com) for really believing in our mission and making this podcast possible.

If this episode made you think differently, laugh, or even yell out loud, we want to hear about it! Connect with us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to rate, review, and share – maybe with your work bestie… or even your boss if you're feeling bold.

We also bring these important conversations to conferences and private workshops, creating space for real, meaningful change. Take the first step at www.whydoesitfeelsowrong.com.