In this deeply reflective and practical WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna welcomes Randy Conley, Vice President and Trust Practice Leader at The Ken Blanchard Companies, into a conversation that moves beyond trust as a concept and into trust as a relational, moral, and courageous practice.

Together, they explore a reality many leaders experience but few name: trust is often broken not by malice, but by silence, misaligned expectations, and unresolved wounds. At the heart of rebuilding trust, Randy and Rob surface a powerful and often overlooked leadership discipline—forgiveness.

In a cultural moment marked by polarization, cancellation, and quick judgments, this episode challenges leaders to consider a different path. One grounded in humility, confession, and the willingness to acknowledge brokenness, not as weakness, but as the starting point for wholeness. Randy reframes forgiveness as a personal choice rather than a transactional outcome, reminding leaders that unforgiveness quietly erodes the very trust they hope to protect.

The conversation also dives into the real-world complexity of leadership: trust dilemmas, competing loyalties, unspoken expectations, and the tension between accountability and compassion. Rather than offering simplistic answers, Randy offers grounded wisdom, research-backed insight, and practical behaviors leaders can begin applying immediately.

This episode ultimately invites leaders to ask a deeper question: Is it possible to move toward wholeness—personally, relationally, or organizationally—without forgiveness? And if trust always requires risk, are we willing to go first?

1. Forgiveness and Vulnerability Are Core Leadership Choices Trust cannot be rebuilt without forgiveness, and forgiveness always requires vulnerability. Leaders do not wait for certainty, acknowledgment, or apology—they choose courage, go first, and create space for trust to begin again.
2. Trust Grows Through Clarity, Not Assumptions Many breaches of trust are rooted in unspoken expectations rather than intentional harm. Healthy leaders make the implicit explicit, communicate early when commitments change, and practice dependability by doing what they say they will do.
3. Trust Is Sustained Through Consistent Behavior Over Time Trust is not a destination but a journey shaped by daily actions. Moments of forgiveness matter, but trust is maintained through ownership, follow-through, and reliability—especially when the path forward is complex.
4. Wholeness Emerges When Leaders Name Brokenness Honestly Leaders do not lead from perfection but from humility. Confessing cultures—where mistakes are acknowledged and learned from—create healthier organizations and transform cracks into pathways for growth, restoration, and trust.

In this episode of The WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Jeff Schiefelbein, managing partner of Undivided Life, for a courageous conversation about what it truly means to live and lead without fragmentation. Together they unpack why so many leaders feel divided between who they are and who they think they must be to succeed—and what it costs them, their families, and their organizations.

Jeff shares candid stories about integrating faith, family, and vocation, including the moment an ordinary phone call about his miniature donkeys awakened a colleague to the weight of her own divided life. From fears of looking weak, to cultural narratives that glorify “my truth,” to workplaces that unintentionally reward pretending—this conversation goes straight to the heart of the human condition.

Rob and Jeff explore why leaders long for wholeness but struggle to live it, why calling is always communal, and why transformation cannot happen in isolation. They challenge the myth of the “self-made” leader and offer a compelling vision for integrated, human-centered leadership—leadership formed through real relationships, honest self-awareness, and shared development across the people we actually do life with.

Most leaders know instantly that “wholeness” is right, but fear looking weak, uncommitted, or different. Fear—not lack of desire—is the real barrier.

When leaders fake strengths, mute their values, or hide their commitments at home, they advance under false pretenses—and eventually feel trapped by the very role they earned.

Jeff: “Everywhere I go, the more I show up as me—not who the moment wants me to be—the more people thank me for it.” Authenticity isn’t performance; it’s presence.

Contrary to the “live your truth” narrative, calling unfolds with the people who share our lives. The myth of the isolated, self-directed leader is both naïve and harmful.

Breakthrough performance happens when organizations unlock individual potential with coaching, trust, and relational development—not just metrics or quarterly targets.

Faith, family, self-awareness, and leadership aren’t separate lanes. Integrated leaders take wiser risks, steward energy better, and create environments where others can thrive.

In this powerful conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna and Ron Carucci dive into the hidden forces that shape honesty, trust, and character inside organizations. Ron—co-founder of Navalent, bestselling author of To Be Honest, and one of the most unflinchingly candid voices in leadership—reveals what 30 years of research and experience have uncovered: honesty isn’t just a virtue. It’s a muscle. And organizations are either strengthening it… or eroding it every day.

Together, Rob and Ron revisit the early days of their collaboration, exploring what it really takes to lead alongside others with authenticity, speed, and grace. They reflect on the messy, beautiful realities of partnership, the tension between pace and presence, the power of emerging leaders, and the organizational conditions that predict whether people will tell the truth—or hide it.

Ron breaks down the four conditions that scientifically predict honesty and trustworthiness on a team, including accountability with dignity, say–do alignment, cross-functional integrity, and true transparency in decision-making. Through candid stories, personal reflection, and practical insights, this episode challenges leaders to examine not just who they are—but the environments they create.

This is a masterclass in leading with integrity in complex times, delivered with the honesty, humor, and clarity that only Ron Carucci can bring.

Leaders must practice honesty daily. Our brains are wired for truth, but our environments often pull us toward fear, self-protection, or silence.

There are four conditions that predict truth-telling or deception. Leaders either reinforce or erode integrity by the systems they tolerate.

If what you claim as a leader doesn’t match what people observe, you institutionalize duplicity.

When people feel seen and respected for their contributions, they are four times more likely to tell the truth.

If a room feels like orchestrated theater, people will seek truth elsewhere—usually in hushed corners.

Cross-functional tensions are where the truth fractures first. Healthy seams = healthy trust.

For more on Ron's work click the links below:

www.navalent.com

www.tobehonest.net

In this compelling WiLD Conversation, global executive, former CEO of Korn Ferry, board director, and growth strategist Ana Dutra joins Rob McKenna to dive deep into the essential, yet paradoxical, foundations of effective leadership: vulnerability, trust, and purpose. Drawing on three decades of experience transforming organizations and leading Korn Ferry's $500M+ consulting business, Ana shares her hard-won wisdom on aligning personal values with professional impact. This conversation offers a powerful perspective on how authentic self-awareness anchors leaders and builds high-performing, high-trust cultures.

1. Vulnerability is Your Anchor in the Storm: The foundational risk in leadership is the "openness to being hurt," yet this vulnerability is necessary for personal and professional growth. When purpose is excavated and shared, it acts as an anchor, creating stability and trustworthiness in the face of uncertainty.
2. Diagnose the Three Flavors of Trust: Do not accept "I don't trust them" at face value. Dig deeper, as trust issues often fall into three distinct buckets: Competence (can they do the job?), Character (are they honest?), or Loyalty (are they committed to me/us?). Micromanagement is often a loud symptom of one of these underlying trust deficits.
3. Beware the "High Potential" Trap: While agility is crucial, leaders must move past the vilification of "high professionals" (deep experts). A team made only of high-agility people (High Potentials) can breed boredom and instability. True success requires valuing both the "Hypo" (who excels everywhere) and the "Deep Expert" (who anchors core functions).
4. Board Service is About Mindset, Not Status: Serving on a board requires a mindset focused on partnership, not auditing. Directors must prioritize being the "best partner" for the management team and come to the table to "give back" and "pay it forward," rather than viewing the role as a career capstone or personal status symbol.

This special episode of the WiLD Conversation Podcast features Jeffrey Hunter, the visionary CEO, Founder, and Chairperson of Storyteller Overland. Dr. Rob McKenna is a proud owner of a Storyteller Stealth, giving listeners an intimate look at his personal "mode" and setting the stage for a deeply personal and insightful discussion. Jeffrey shares the origin story of Storyteller Overland, born from a desire to meet unmet needs in the van life community with high-quality, scalable production, allowing adventurers to "focus on the life aspects of van life" with confidence and a "circle of trust."

• Inspiring a "Live Free" Movement: At its core, Storyteller Overland is on a mission against a "broken timeline"—the tendency to defer dreams and adventures. Jeffrey’s leadership aims to empower people to "take the next step" and embrace a new version of themselves, confident in the gear and supported by a community that helps them explore farther and "not keep breaking their timeline." This mission-driven approach defines not only their product but their entire organizational purpose.
• Trust as the Governing Physics of Business: Jeffrey emphasizes that trust is not just a soft skill but the "governing physics" of enduring success, both within the organization and with its community. He advocates for measuring trust to create pathways for change and intentionally fostering authenticity, integrity, and commitment to shared values among a diverse team.
• Quantifying the Vibe: As Storyteller Overland scaled rapidly, Jeffrey and his team realized the need to "quantify the vibe." This means identifying measurable metrics for subjective feelings like community, confidence, and happiness to ensure that rapid growth doesn't sacrifice the core culture and values. Leaders must continually ensure the "vibe" is structurally, endemically, and consistently true.
• Product as a Vehicle for Purpose: The "mode" is intentionally designed not as conspicuous consumption, but as a "vehicle" for accessing and connecting with passions, people, and places. Jeffrey's personal journey of seeking permission to live a more adventurous life translated into products that help others "unlock the person they're wanting to go and do and be and become," making the product an extension of a greater mission.
• Continuous Improvement in All Aspects: From product design to personal leadership, Jeffrey champions continuous improvement. This includes not only refining vehicles but also continually working on personal growth and leadership capacity, recognizing that a relationship, whether with a team or a customer, is "not one and done."

This conversation offers invaluable lessons for leaders striving to build a thriving business rooted in trust, purpose, and a truly wild spirit of adventure.

• Watch on YouTube : https://youtu.be/Bohg3Lo75bA
• For more on the WiLD Trust Index visit : https://www.wildleaders.org/wild-trust-index
• For more on Storyteller Overland visit : https://www.storytelleroverland.com/

From Building Systems to Cultivating People: A Path to Trust and Growth

In this episode of the WiLD Conversation Podcast, host Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Josh Wylie, President of Villara Building Systems, to reveal a leadership metaphor that reshapes how we think about influence: the builder and the gardener.

Great leaders must be both. Builders focus on visible structures—systems, strategies, and profits. Gardeners nurture what is unseen—the trust, relationships, and culture that make growth sustainable. Wylie shares how Villara Building Systems, a national leader in its industry, has built its mission around “building people, building trust, and building dreams.”

From leveraging the WiLD Trust Index to creating an in-house coaching program, Wylie demonstrates how leaders can systematize trust and invest in people holistically. This conversation is a blueprint for leading organizations with integrity, intentionality, and a relentless commitment to human flourishing.

• Be Both a Builder and a Gardener Success requires more than structures and systems. Leaders must also cultivate the “invisible” work of trust, culture, and relationships.
• Systematize Trust Trust isn’t a buzzword—it’s a discipline. Measure it, track it, and reinforce it with accountability, clear expectations, and consistent feedback.
• Invest in the Whole Person Villara’s in-house coaching program is proof that when employees grow personally and professionally, loyalty, ownership, and performance follow.
• Lead with Vulnerability In moments of pressure, honesty—even about uncertainty—builds trust and calms fear. Vulnerability creates credibility.
• Empower People to Own Their Plans Don’t just give answers. Ask better questions. When team members design their own development and commitments, their motivation and accountability multiply.

Patrick Lencioni, one of the most influential voices in organizational health together with Dr. Rob McKenna, dive deep to explore the heart of effective leadership—redefining success, reframing identity, and uncovering the surprising role of brokenness in shaping whole leaders.

This episode of The WiLD Conversation Podcast begins lightheartedly with pet peeves, but quickly moves into transformative insights on humility, trust, and the sacrificial nature of leadership.

Key Takeaways for Leaders:

• Reframe Success from Performance to Wholeness Success isn’t about endless striving or achievement. Lencioni challenges the idea that high performance equals health, showing instead that true leadership comes from peace and wholeness, not fear or insecurity.
• Embrace Vulnerability as the Foundation of Trust Vulnerability isn’t trendy, it’s courageous. Trust is forged when leaders risk openness, admit mistakes, and allow others to see their imperfections. This creates authentic connection and psychological safety.
• Know Your Working Genius and Acknowledge Weaknesses Leaders don’t need to excel at everything. Lencioni’s Working Genius model helps identify where joy and energy come from while encouraging teams to complement each other’s strengths. Admitting what you’re not good at isn’t weakness—it’s humility and wisdom.
• Leadership is a Sacrificial Act Leadership isn’t about recognition or power. It’s about service—choosing difficulty and even suffering on behalf of others. Great leaders embrace this sacrificial posture for the sake of those they lead.

For more on The Table Group visit: https://www.tablegroup.com/

For more on The Working Genius visit: https://www.workinggenius.com/

For more on the WiLD Trust Index visit: https://www.wildleaders.org/wild-trust-index

For more on WiLD Leaders Inc. visit: https://www.wildleaders.org/

In this unmissable episode of The WiLD Conversation podcast, hosts Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu are joined by the legendary Dr. Amy Edmondson, Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School and the pioneering mind behind the globally transformative concept of psychological safety.

With candor and clarity, Dr. Edmondson challenges long-held beliefs about leadership, trust, and failure. She reframes trust not as something earned over time, but as a deliberate choice—a bold act that inspires others to rise to the occasion. And she cuts through misconceptions about psychological safety, revealing it not as comfort or kindness, but as the courage to foster learning, candor, and intelligent risk-taking.

This conversation is a masterclass for leaders who want to build environments where people are safe to speak up, take smart risks, and grow together.

→ Trust Is a Choice, Not a Prize: Amy offers a compelling reframe: trust isn’t a passive result of consistency, it's an active decision to believe in people before they’ve proven themselves. That kind of leadership invites others to show up more fully.

→ Psychological Safety ≠ Comfort: Psychological safety isn’t about being “nice” or avoiding discomfort, it's about creating the conditions for learning, candor, and accountability, even when the stakes are high.

→ Vulnerability Is Strength: Leaders who admit mistakes and ask questions set the tone for growth. Vulnerability isn’t weakness; it’s a strategic signal of trustworthiness and courage.

→ Discernment Over Permission: Failure isn’t always bad. Amy unpacks the difference between basic, complex, and intelligent failures, encouraging leaders to cultivate a culture that learns from risk without lowering standards.