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In Part 2 of this powerful conversation, Tami Jackson shares what happened after the truth came out.

As she reflects on decades of marriage, Tami opens up about the complexities of accountability, leadership, and communication within a pastor’s home. She candidly discusses the unintended consequences of performance-based expectations, the challenges of misunderstood submission, and the long-term impact of unresolved patterns in marriage.

Then, in a deeply emotional turn, Tami recounts the sudden and unexpected loss of her husband—and how God met her in the middle of overwhelming grief. Through her story, we see a powerful picture of God’s faithfulness, the importance of spiritual and practical preparation, and the sustaining hope found in Christ.

This episode is a raw and redemptive look at marriage, loss, and the grace of God that carries us through it all.

Key Topics Covered

• Why some marriages struggle to heal even after truth is revealed
• The dangers of unhealthy or misplaced accountability in marriage
• Misunderstandings of submission and their long-term effects
• The tension between public ministry life and private family reality
• Why seeking help (like counseling) matters sooner rather than later
• The sudden loss of a spouse and navigating grief with faith
• Financial stewardship and preparation for pastors and their families
• Parenting, legacy, and rebuilding relationships with children
• Living authentically in ministry instead of maintaining a façade

Key Takeaways

• Healing requires more than honesty—it requires intentional change and wise help
• You teach people how to treat you—healthy boundaries matter
• Accountability should be grace-filled, not performance-driven
• Pastors must lead their families with the same care they give their congregation
• It’s never too late to grow, but delaying healing has real consequences
• God’s faithfulness is most evident in life’s hardest moments
• Preparing financially and practically is an act of love for your family
• Being real in ministry creates space for true healing and connection

Notable Quotes

• “You do what you know until you know better.”
• “We lived in a way that wasn’t fully real—we kept up a façade.”
• “God’s faithfulness has been unbelievable.”
• “It’s always for His glory and always for our good.”
• “Be real as a pastor in life.”

Discussion Questions

1. Are there unhealthy patterns in your marriage that need to be addressed?
2. What does healthy, grace-filled accountability look like in your relationships?
3. Are you living authentically, or maintaining an image for others?
4. How prepared are you—spiritually and practically—for the unexpected?
5. In what ways have you seen God’s faithfulness in difficult seasons?

Resources & Next Steps

• Seek wise, biblical counseling early—don’t wait until patterns are deeply ingrained
• Evaluate your approach to accountability—ensure it’s rooted in grace, not performance
• Begin or revisit financial planning as a way to care for your family
• Invite honest, safe relationships where you can be fully known
• Spend time reflecting on God’s faithfulness in your own life

Final Encouragement

No marriage is perfect, and no story is without struggle—but God is faithful in every season. Whether you’re walking through healing, hardship, or loss, you can trust that He is working for His glory and your good.

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In this powerful first part of our conversation, Tami Jackson shares the moment that changed everything—a phone call to her husband after ten years of marriage, finally revealing a painful secret she had carried since childhood.

Tami opens up about the impact of sexual abuse, how unprocessed trauma shaped her view of intimacy, and the silent ways it affected her marriage, communication, and relationship with God. Together, we explore the danger of living in hiddenness, the pressure of performance-based faith, and how even well-meaning accountability can become harmful when it lacks grace and understanding.

This episode is a raw and honest look at what happens when pain is buried—and why healing begins with telling the truth.

Key Topics Covered

• The breaking point that led to Tami’s life-changing phone call
• The long-term effects of childhood trauma on marriage and intimacy
• Living on someone else’s faith vs. owning your relationship with Christ
• How hidden struggles impact communication and connection in marriage
• The difference between healthy and unhealthy accountability
• Performance-based spirituality vs. grace-filled growth
• Why honesty is the first step toward healing

Key Takeaways

• Unresolved trauma doesn’t stay hidden—it shows up in our relationships
• Silence and secrecy can quietly damage even strong marriages
• Intimacy struggles are often rooted in deeper emotional or spiritual wounds
• Accountability without grace can feel like control rather than care
• You cannot experience true healing without honesty
• It’s never too late to begin addressing the past

Notable Quotes

• “I was living in a lie.”
• “I can’t live like this anymore.”
• “I wasn’t growing—I was living on someone else’s faith.”
• “It wasn’t a bad marriage—it just wasn’t as good as it could have been.”

Discussion Questions

1. Are there areas of your life where you’ve been hiding instead of being honest?
2. How might past experiences be shaping your current relationships?
3. What does healthy, grace-filled accountability look like in your life?
4. Are you pursuing your own relationship with Christ, or relying on someone else’s faith?

Resources & Next Steps

• Consider speaking with a trusted counselor or mentor if this episode surfaced personal struggles
• Begin a daily rhythm of personal time with God—not out of performance, but relationship
• Invite safe, grace-filled accountability into your life

Next Episode

What does healing actually look like after the truth comes out?
How do you begin to rebuild trust, intimacy, and a healthy relationship with God?

Join us next week for Part 2 of Tami’s story—where the journey toward healing and restoration continues.

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In this episode of the Care for Pastors Podcast, Robby Bolden sits down with John Harvey to reflect on a lifetime of ministry. With over three decades of experience, John shares an honest and deeply personal look at the challenges, temptations, and triumphs that come with faithfully serving in pastoral leadership.

This is not a polished highlight reel — it’s a real conversation about endurance, failure, growth, and the grace of God that sustains pastors over the long haul.

🔎 In This Episode, We Discuss:

• What it really takes to last 30+ years in ministry
• The tension between ministry calling and family priorities
• How pride and insecurity quietly shape leadership decisions
• The pain and reality of betrayal in ministry
• Navigating seasons of discouragement and burnout
• Guarding your heart against long-term temptation
• The importance of community, accountability, and trusted relationships
• Lessons learned through failure, not just success
• Why finishing well matters more than starting fast

💡 Key Takeaways

• Longevity in ministry is built on faithfulness, not fame.
• Your family is your first ministry — neglecting them comes at a cost.
• Pride and insecurity are subtle but dangerous companions in leadership.
• Isolation makes pastors vulnerable; community strengthens resilience.
• Betrayal is painful, but it doesn’t have to define your story.
• By God’s grace, it is possible to finish well.

❤️ A Word to Pastors

If you’re in a hard season…
If you’re carrying wounds no one else sees…
If you’re questioning whether you can keep going…

This episode is a reminder that you’re not alone.

The road of ministry is long, and it’s often difficult — but it is also deeply meaningful. And as John shares so honestly, despite the hardships, the journey is worth it.

Care for Pastors Podcast — because those who shepherd others need care too.

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In Part Two of this important conversation, Robby Bolden continues his discussion with Sam Jolman, author of The Sex Talk You Never Got.

In Part One, we explored sexual formation, shame, and the deeper story behind behavior. In this episode, we move toward practical healing. How do pastors and ministry leaders begin reclaiming sexual health? What does real transformation look like? And how can broken trust actually be rebuilt?

This conversation is honest, hopeful, and deeply pastoral.

🔎 In This Episode, We Discuss:

• Why sexual struggles are often about emotional regulation, not just lust
• How pornography can function as comfort or soothing
• The importance of curiosity over condemnation
• Identifying core wounds that fuel repetitive behaviors
• The role of fantasy and unmet longing
• How to move from secrecy into safe community
• Practical steps toward rebuilding trust in marriage
• Why recovery is about reclaiming awe—not just avoiding failure
• The possibility of recovering sexual innocence

💡 Key Takeaways

• You cannot shame yourself into freedom.
• Sexual healing requires understanding your story.
• Emotional awareness is a critical part of spiritual growth.
• Community and accountability are pathways to lasting change.
• God’s design for sexuality is not merely restrictive — it is beautiful and life-giving.

❤️ A Word to Pastors

If you are leading publicly while struggling privately, this episode is an invitation — not to exposure, but to healing.

Freedom does not begin with self-punishment. It begins with honesty.
Restoration does not start with fear. It starts with grace.

There is a path forward.

🎧 Coming Next Week:
A conversation with John Harvey on 36 years of ministry — lessons on longevity, guarding your family, navigating betrayal, confronting pride, and finishing well.

Be sure to subscribe and share this episode with a fellow pastor who needs encouragement.

Care for Pastors Podcast — because those who shepherd others need care too.

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In this powerful first installment of a two-part conversation, Robby Bolden sits down with Sam Jolman, author of The Sex Talk You Never Got, to address one of the most silent and misunderstood struggles in ministry: sexual brokenness and shame.

For many pastors and their spouses, sexuality has been reduced to one primary question: “Am I behaving or not?” But what if that framework is far too shallow? What if sexual struggles are not just about behavior—but about formation, trauma, shame, and story?

This episode moves beyond condemnation and into curiosity. Beyond secrecy and toward healing.

🔎 In This Episode, We Discuss:

• Why sexual formation is often neglected in spiritual formation conversations
• The difference between sexual sin and sexual wounding
• How shame fuels isolation—and why isolation keeps the cycle alive
• The connection between abuse, early exposure to pornography, and later struggles
• Why many pastors feel they have nowhere safe to turn
• The difference between conviction and toxic shame
• How self-hatred masquerades as repentance
• Why kindness—not self-punishment—leads to real change
• What it means to recover sexual “awe” and innocence

💡 Key Takeaways

• Sexuality is not a curse to be managed but a gift to be sanctified.
• Shame is not from God; conviction draws us toward Him, shame drives us away.
• Isolation is the enemy’s playground. Healing happens in courageous community.
• You cannot hate yourself out of sin—but you can move toward grace and truth.
• There is hope for restoration, even if you feel “too far gone.”

❤️ For Pastors and Ministry Leaders

If you’ve felt trapped between leadership expectations and private struggles…
If you’ve believed that coming forward would cost you everything…
If you’ve wondered whether healing is even possible for you…

This conversation is for you.

You are not alone. And shame does not get the final word.

🎧 Next Week (Part 2):
We move from diagnosis to direction. Sam shares practical steps toward reclaiming sexual health, rebuilding trust in marriage, and creating a pathway toward lasting healing for you and your family.

Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss Part Two.

Care for Pastors Podcast — Because those who shepherd others need care too.

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What happens when a faithful pastor is suddenly forced out of ministry?

In this powerful and deeply honest conversation, Robby sits down with Deanna Harrison, co-founder of Pastors Hope Network, to talk about the devastating experience of pastoral termination—and the long road toward healing.

After over 30 years of loving ministry life, Deanna and her husband were blindsided by a forced resignation that unfolded in just 12 days. No due process. No warning. Just loss, grief, and trauma.

But what the enemy meant for destruction, God used to birth a new ministry—one that now provides crisis care, counseling connections, financial guidance, and employment assistance to pastors and families who have lost their ministry positions.

If you or someone you love has experienced the pain of termination, this episode will remind you:
You are not crazy. You are not alone. And you are not finished.

Key Topics Covered

• The emotional and spiritual trauma of forced termination
• Grieving ministry loss and understanding the stages of grief
• The stigma pastors carry after being “let go”
• Why forgiveness is a process—not a one-time decision
• Protecting your marriage when ministry collapses
• The importance of friendships outside your church
• Practical advice for pastors: CPE training, chaplaincy, and vocational flexibility

Key Takeaways

• Termination trauma is real. Many pastors are blindsided and deeply disoriented after losing their position.
• Anger is part of grief. Emotional reactions don’t mean you lack faith—they mean you’re human.
• Your marriage is your ministry. When everything else falls apart, your spouse is your primary calling.
• You must build friendships outside the church. Losing a position often means losing your entire social network.
• Ministry doesn’t end when the paycheck does. God often redirects calling, not cancels it.
• Crisis care matters. The first year after termination is critical for mental, financial, and relational stability.
• Denominations don’t define kingdom partnership. If you love Jesus, we’re on the same team.

Memorable Quotes

“Forgiveness is a process. You don’t just say the words and move on.”

“Our marriage was the only stable thing in our lives—and that was enough.”

“Just because a church doesn’t sign your paycheck doesn’t mean you’ve left ministry.”

“We show up like paramedics—we don’t ask whose fault it was. We ask, ‘Who’s hurt?’”

Deanna Harrison is the co-founder of Pastors Hope Network, a nonprofit dedicated to helping pastors and ministry families who have lost their ministry positions. After walking through the trauma of forced termination herself, Deanna felt called to create a network of mental health, financial, and employment resources designed specifically for wounded shepherds.

Her book, Moving On: Surviving the Grief of Forced Termination, has helped hundreds of pastors begin their healing journey.

Resources Mentioned

• Pastors Hope Network – pastorshopenetwork.org
• Care for Pastors – Counseling and support for ministry families
• Clinical Pastoral Education (CPE) for chaplaincy pathways

Who This Episode Is For

• Pastors who have been forced out or terminated
• Pastor’s wives navigating trauma and grief
• Ministry couples protecting their marriage
• Church leaders who want to better care for wounded shepherds

Next Episode:
We continue the conversation around hidden pain as Robby interviews Sam Jolman about sexual formation, shame, and healing from sexual brokenness.

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In Part Two of our powerful conversation, Robby Bolden continues his discussion with Phil and Priscilla Fretwell, authors of Savage Marriage, as they walk us deeper into the journey of healing, transparency, and restored intimacy after confession and betrayal.

If you haven’t listened to Part One, we strongly encourage you to go back and start there. This episode builds on that foundation of confession, repentance, and the beginning of healing.

Episode Highlights

1. The Beginning of True Intimacy

Phil and Priscilla share how their healing began—not with physical intimacy—but with:

• Early morning time in God’s Word together
• Learning spiritual intimacy for the first time
• Sharing thoughts, fears, burdens, and failures openly
• Discovering that emotional intimacy flows from spiritual intimacy

They unpack the biblical order of intimacy:
Spiritual → Emotional → Physical

When spiritual intimacy is missing, physical intimacy becomes mechanical. When it’s restored, physical intimacy becomes meaningful and fulfilling.

2. 100 Days of Rebuilding Trust

After confession, they made a critical decision:
No sexual intimacy for 100 days.

Why?

• To remove agenda-driven behavior
• To rebuild trust without manipulation
• To learn how to know one another emotionally
• To pursue forgiveness and repentance intentionally

This season became a game changer in rebuilding safety and trust.

3. Radical Transparency: “Taking Thoughts Captive”

Phil shares a powerful practice that transformed their marriage:

• Sending a simple 🙏 emoji as code when facing temptation
• Discussing triggers openly later
• Choosing transparency over secrecy

His key insight:

“If I shared the thought, I took it captive.
If I kept it secret, it took me captive.”

They also describe practical ways they navigated public triggers (like switching seats at a restaurant) as an act of honoring and protecting one another.

4. Reclaiming Sexual Intimacy God’s Way

Their renewed sexual relationship was not about technique—it was about:

• Inviting the Holy Spirit into their marriage bed
• Renouncing past patterns shaped by pornography
• Rejecting shame and secrecy
• Praying together

Priscilla shares her powerful prayer for “the pleasure of Sarah” (Genesis 18), asking God to redeem what had been robbed. God answered.

This conversation is honest, redemptive, and deeply hopeful.

5. Advice for Pastors & Leaders Harboring Secrets

If you’re hiding something:

• Tell someone.
• Don’t manage or minimize the story.
• Get wise counsel before confessing to your spouse.

If confession has already happened:

• Bring in trusted outside help.
• Humility must replace image protection.
• Repentance must be visible, not performative.

Phil reminds us:

“There is no cure for shame without telling your story.”

6. For Pastors Concerned About Their Church

Phil and Priscilla address the fear every leader carries:

“What will this do to my church?”

They remind us:

• Transparency can bring revival.
• Weakness, when confessed, invites the power of Christ.
• Many in your congregation are already struggling with the same issues.

When leaders create environments of honesty, freedom follows.

📘 Savage Marriage by Phil & Priscilla Fretwell
🌐 Website: savagemarriageministries.com

You can also reach out to Care for Pastors if you or your spouse need confidential support.

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In this powerful and deeply transparent Season 3 premiere, Robby Bolden sits down with Phil and Priscilla Fretwell to begin a two-part conversation about brokenness, betrayal, repentance, and redemption in marriage.

Phil shares his decades-long struggle with pornography, secrecy, and pride—even while serving as a church leader. Priscilla opens up about the trauma of betrayal, the lies she believed about herself, and the emotional and spiritual disconnect that followed. Together, they recount how hidden sin nearly destroyed their marriage—and how confession, humility, and radical transparency became the pathway to healing.

This episode is a sobering reminder for pastors and church leaders: secrecy fuels bondage, but humility opens the door to grace.

Key Themes from Part 1

1. The Destructive Power of Secrecy

• Hidden sin creates internal war (Psalm 32:3–5).
• Managing sin is not the same as experiencing transformation.
• Pride keeps leaders isolated and resistant to healing.

2. Betrayal Trauma and Emotional Fallout

• Priscilla’s honest reflection on fear, anger, shame, and believing she was “not enough.”
• The long-term impact of unresolved hurt and spiritual disconnection in marriage.
• How secrecy affected not just their relationship—but their entire family system.

3. Humility as the Turning Point

• A pivotal moment of desperation that led Phil to surrender.
• “God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
• The difference between information disclosure and true repentance.

4. The Role of Counseling and True Healing

• Why counseling alone cannot replace heart transformation.
• The danger of performing—even in therapy.
• Healing requires confession, community, and dependence on God.

5. Breaking Generational Secrecy

• Why they chose to share appropriately with their children.
• How transparency created deeper unity instead of destruction.
• The ripple effect of confession within extended family relationships.

6. Guarding the Heart Moving Forward

• Becoming intentional about media consumption.
• Cultivating spiritual and emotional intimacy.
• Choosing lifelong transparency over image management.

Powerful Quotes from the Episode

• “There is no secret healing.”
• “I became convinced I couldn’t save myself.”
• “It’s not a moment of transparency—it’s a lifetime of transparency.”
• “What I saw for the first time in 28 years of marriage was a repentant and humble heart.”
• “God had freedom in mind—not just for us, but for our family.”

Scripture Referenced

• Psalm 32:3–5 – The weight of unconfessed sin
• James 5:16 – Confess your sins to one another
• 1 John 5 – Sin that leads to death
• John 17:21 – Unity as testimony
• Psalm 51:17 – A broken and contrite heart

Why This Matters for Pastors

• You can lead publicly while dying privately.
• Pride isolates; humility restores.
• Image management is the enemy of healing.
• Freedom begins where secrecy ends.

If you are struggling in silence, this episode is both a warning and an invitation.

Coming Next Week (Part 2)

In Part 2, Phil and Priscilla share what happened after confession—how God rebuilt trust, restored intimacy, transformed their family culture, and used their story to impact others.

Resources:
Learn more about Phil and Priscilla’s journey in Savage Marriage.

If this episode encouraged you, consider sharing it with a fellow pastor or ministry spouse who may need hope today.