Lily interviews Doreen, a long-term listener from the beginning of the podcast. Doreen is coming on three years off kratom and shares her journey to being kratom free. Hers was a path not as harrowing as many, but still a difficult one, nonetheless.

Before kratom, she had minimal addiction history; only seasonal cigarette smoking in high school that she could easily stop. In January 2022, Doreen underwent a lumbar puncture and desperate for pain relief after medical options failed, someone gave her husband kratom to help. Her use escalated from a teaspoon to tablespoons, multiple times daily. She took it everywhere except work, constantly thinking about her next dose.

A spiritual disconnection became her wake-up call. She tried to quit multiple times, experiencing severe withdrawal: inability to sleep, restless leg syndrome, complete loss of joy, depression, and intense crying. She described it as the worst experience of her life, with no relief day or night. Doreen finally quit in February 2023, with her husband staying by her side through the worst of it.

Tragically, the person who originally gave kratom to her husband later died from kratom use, a loss that motivated Doreen to share her story publicly. She now actively warns others about kratom's dangers, having already prevented at least one coworker from trying it. Her message: kratom may seem harmless and natural, but it's addictive and can destroy lives while keeping its grip hidden from those closest to you.

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Today's guest Greg was sober 18 plus years when I received a free sample of 7-OH at a vape shot. His use escalated, in part because he was started buying at wholesale prices and hit a bottom in 10 months. Greg was able to successfully taper off, and it now dedicated to growing KA, a 12-step group focused on kratom:

Home | Kratom Anonymous

https://www.kratom-anonymous.org/

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In the open, Lily and Jacob discuss the pitfall of only using the podcast as your sole source of support (don't do it!). In the interview, Britton, a 40-year-old MRI tech and endurance athlete from Colorado, shares his journey from using kratom, including 7OH at the end, for five years to achieving over a year of sobriety through AA's 12-step program. He and Lily explore:

* The isolating nature of kratom addiction;

* The brutal withdrawal process he endured cold turkey;

* A deceptive progression from casual use to physical dependence to disordered consumption with an inability to quit despite a strong desire.

Britton wants to help people - here is his number: 7eight5-2one8-08two4

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Recently, we've had a trend of welcoming back old guests mostly to celebrate anniversary milestones but in Elliot's case, he is returning to warn about the risk of relapse. After being almost off kratom for three years - June 2022 to March 2025 - Elliot tried 7-OH during a stressful time in his life. After about 9 months, and getting up to 2,000 mg at a cost of $300 day at his extreme, he is now back on track. Elliot's first appearance in May 2023: https://kratomsobriety.podbean.com/e/2-interview-with-elliot/

Checkout the new 12-step group focused on kratom:

Home | Kratom Anonymous

https://www.kratom-anonymous.org/

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Kratom was banned in Connecticut and Louisiana this year, as well as in scores of cities. Ohio and California, two big states, are taking significant actions to crack down on kratom in 2025. What are the alternatives? This episode explores a middle-ground approach to kratom regulation that rejects both total bans and weak, industry-written rules. We introduce six common-sense protections, including point-of-sale education, clear medical warnings, behind-the-counter sales, age verification for online purchases, naloxone availability, and strict limits on high-potency extracts. The goal is to make kratom use safer by offering pre-purchase digital counselling, reducing impulsive purchases, protecting youth, and limiting the most addictive and dangerous products while preserving adult access to lower-risk leaf forms. READ MORE: https://kratomsobriety.com/f/middle-ground-kratom-regulations

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Jacob and Lily discuss how the hosts let guests tell their story from their point of view, and as a podcast we are not able to vet people before they are interviewed. Ramey celebrates two years off kratom with Natalie. To connect with the meetings discussed in the interview, please visit: https://kratomquitters.com/

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Episode focused on quitting kratom with a lockbox as a tool. In the interview this week, Gen-Xer Thomas (long-time primarily a powder user with many attempted quits) describes the challenge as: "Addiction lies to you in your own voice".

Lockbox links (like always we don't get any commissions if you buy one):

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/style/lockable-box-container.html

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home-products/g35902030/top-time-locking-containers

https://www.thekitchensafe.com/

A rough estimate of Thomas' end of day dose before he quit:

Three heaping tablespoons of kratom powder ≈ 18–24 grams. Here is how that breaks down:

A) 1 level tablespoon of kratom powder is usually about 5–7 grams

B) A heaping tablespoon is typically 6–8 grams

C) 3 heaping tablespoons → 6–8 g × 3 = 18–24 g

Kratom powder density varies by grind, moisture, and how loosely it is scooped. "Heaping” is very subjective. Some heaps are modest, others are piled high. Volume measures are unreliable for kratom. A digital scale is the only accurate way to know dose. 18–24 grams is considered a very high dose for most people and is well into a range associated with dependence, tolerance escalation, and withdrawal risk.

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Episode focused on 7-OH. Dr. Stanciu's credentials:

https://geiselmed.dartmouth.edu/faculty/facultydb/view.php/?uid=7021

Article Charlie & Jazz discuss about 7-OH potency in guinea pig intestines: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320505008167

FDA document Dr. Stancui refers to:

https://www.fda.gov/media/187900/download

News article about 7-OH bust from end of open: https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/breaking-bad-on-steroids-palm-bay-brevard-county-florida-drugs-kratom-7-oh-explosives-bust/

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