Lisa chats with Kristin Horstman, whose new podcast, Sunsets Are the New Happy Hour, is a neuroscience-informed discussion of sobriety and behavioral changes that can make a positive impact. Come for the chat on rewiring your nervous system. Stay for the sunsets and glimmers.

Before Recovery Rocks, Anna hosted Recover Girl, where conversations about addiction and recovery were less “before-and-after success story” and more “let’s unpack the human condition for 45 minutes.” This Thursday Throwback features musician Moby in one of the most thoughtful recovery conversations we’ve ever aired.

Moby talks about getting sober at 22 after years of chaotic drinking and drug use, throwing legendary degenerate parties in New York, relapsing after eight years of “insufferably sober” Christianity and eventually realizing AA wasn’t just a clubhouse for drunks — it was a spiritual program.

The conversation goes everywhere: anonymity, ego, relapse, judgment, fear, God, hangovers in your 40s, why intelligent people resist AA and why two glasses of wine with dinner sounds completely pointless to a real alcoholic.

Basically: if you’ve ever rolled your eyes at recovery clichés while secretly needing them anyway, this episode is for you.

Fear of public speaking commonly ranks among the world’s top phobias.

And why shouldn’t it? Standing in front of room full of eager eyes waiting to hear something brilliant can be terrifying.

We both learned how to speak in front of others in 12-step meetings. Today, Lisa worries about being hit with a panic attack on stage (it’s happened before), while Anna panics about the memorization.

We also get into this week’s Petty Resentment. How do you feel about a stranger tapping you?