Lisa chats with Kristin Horstman, whose new podcast, Sunsets Are the New Happy Hour, is a neuroscience-informed discussion of sobriety and behavioral changes that can make a positive impact. Come for the chat on rewiring your nervous system. Stay for the sunsets and glimmers.

Before Recovery Rocks, Anna hosted Recover Girl, where conversations about addiction and recovery were less “before-and-after success story” and more “let’s unpack the human condition for 45 minutes.” This Thursday Throwback features musician Moby in one of the most thoughtful recovery conversations we’ve ever aired.

Moby talks about getting sober at 22 after years of chaotic drinking and drug use, throwing legendary degenerate parties in New York, relapsing after eight years of “insufferably sober” Christianity and eventually realizing AA wasn’t just a clubhouse for drunks — it was a spiritual program.

The conversation goes everywhere: anonymity, ego, relapse, judgment, fear, God, hangovers in your 40s, why intelligent people resist AA and why two glasses of wine with dinner sounds completely pointless to a real alcoholic.

Basically: if you’ve ever rolled your eyes at recovery clichés while secretly needing them anyway, this episode is for you.

Fear of public speaking commonly ranks among the world’s top phobias.

And why shouldn’t it? Standing in front of room full of eager eyes waiting to hear something brilliant can be terrifying.

We both learned how to speak in front of others in 12-step meetings. Today, Lisa worries about being hit with a panic attack on stage (it’s happened before), while Anna panics about the memorization.

We also get into this week’s Petty Resentment. How do you feel about a stranger tapping you?

Despite being so grateful for our sober lives, we still experience jealousy over big things (friends
with great adult kids) and little ones (another author going viral). The difference is that we now
have the tools to handle it gracefully…most of the time.
Also, welcome to our new segment, Petty Resentments! First up: Why are we pressured to tip on
what are essentially medical procedures?

Before Brad McLeod became one of recovery’s most inspiring voices, he survived an almost unbelievable series of hardships—including childhood instability, extreme isolation as a teen, addiction, incarceration and briefly sharing a jail cell with a murderer.

Now he’s the founder of Sober Motivation and helps people around the world stay sober through honesty, storytelling and connection. This conversation answers the question: how does someone survive the unsurvivable?

The Sober Curator (thesobercurator.com) is the place to find all things sober pop culture and more. It has you covered on book, movie, music, and TV reviews, sober travel and events, gift guides, and other tips for living your best sober life. We talked all about it with our friend Alysse Bryson, the Sober Curator herself, who created the site for fellow pop culture, fashion, and entertain junkies, who happen not to drink. Subscribe to the newsletter and watch for the upcoming membership club, “Backstage with the Sober Curator.” It will have special live sessions and content. We’ll be there!

You know the birthdays, the ones with a zero at the end? Hitting our first ones in sobriety added a new dimension to the milestones. Lisa couldn’t believe she made it her 40th birthday and wishes she’d kept contributing to her 401(K) before that. Anna turned 30 a month after going to rehab and 50 in the midst of the pandemic. Despite the challenges, in the end we realized there’s always a reason to celebrate.

It’s the dreaded 8th Step in 12-Step recovery - making amends to those we have harmed. Anna and Lisa talk about their first experiences with it, as well as what “living amends” look like. And when an amends turns into a bitch session for the other person, we take it in stride, and maybe even have a laugh years later. Plus: how do you make amends to a no-longer-living grandmother you tricked into shoplifting against her knowledge?