When the benefits budget lands on the CFO's desk, the conversation usually starts with "what can we cut?" But at Daikin, a $8 billion HVAC manufacturer in Houston, HR and Finance have spent 16 years rewriting that script together.

In this episode, host Dane Thorwaldson sits down with Andor Molnar, Vice President of Human Resources, and Billy Shipley, Chief Financial Officer at Daikin, to unpack what happens when the people who control the budget and the people who need it stop negotiating and start partnering. With over four decades in HR and two decades in finance respectively, Andor and Billy describe the plant shutdown that cemented their working relationship, why fixed benefit ceilings push leaders toward padding instead of honesty, and how an informal, open-door culture replaced 26-page memos and autocratic budget mandates.

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“When it comes down to what we can have and what we can't have, it is a mutual discussion. And then, at the end, going in fully armed with what we can have. So it's never a surprise when it comes up to the higher corporate that we have to go for this and without that, I'd be shot. Because I'd be sitting here thinking, "I've got a $200 million budget," and, "Sorry, Billy, that's what I spent." We're fully armed knowing what we're doing and predicting of what we're spending in that.” – Andor Molnar

“After our lieutenants and me and Andor get aligned, we go into the office arm in arm, like we are there arm in arm. It's the right thing to do. But in order to do that, obviously, we negotiate and we push and pull and so on and so forth and say, "What's the best way to communicate this?" I haven't had one bad budget review on the HR side. I have others that are a challenge, but not on the HR benefits side. Those go very well because we're aligned.” – Billy Shipley

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Episode Timestamps:

*(01:29): Andor's 43-year career in HR and benefits

*(02:37): Billy's finance journey and why benefits are personal to him

*(04:43): The default CFO mindset on benefits budgets and where it breaks down

*(06:43): The challenge of operating under a fixed budget ceiling

*(15:00): Turning the relationship on its head: trust over adversarial negotiation

*(22:03): Investing in prevention: flu shots, physicals, GLP-1s, and Hello Heart

*(38:13): Advice for HR leaders on building trust with finance + the "blank page" exercise

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Links:

Connect with Andor Molnar on LinkedIn

Connect with Billy Shipley on LinkedIn

Connect with Dane Thorwaldson on LinkedIn

Learn more about Collective Health

Learn more about Caspian Studios

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If you’re enjoying The Benefits Playbook, we’d love your support. Take a moment to rate and review the show wherever you’re listening — it really helps others discover us and join the conversation on the future of employee benefits. And while you’re there, don’t forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. If you know a colleague or friend who’d enjoy the conversation, share it with them too. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you next time.

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The views expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Collective Health, its affiliates, sponsors, employees, or customers. This podcast is not intended as legal, medical, or financial advice. If you have any questions or concerns in these areas, please consult with a qualified professional.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

77% of employees report burnout, but for benefits professionals, it's a silent crisis. They spend every day taking care of everyone else while quietly running on empty themselves.

In this episode, Jennifer Weinstein, Vice President of Benefits at Albertsons Companies and author of the new book Benefits Burnout: How to Fall (Back) in Love with Your Employee Benefits Career, joins host Dane Thorwaldson to unpack why the benefits profession has become a perfect storm for exhaustion. With over two decades in the field, Jennifer shares what led her to write publicly about a topic most people only discuss behind closed doors, why "multiple hat syndrome" and healthcare headwinds are pushing benefits professionals to their limits, and practical ways leaders and individuals can reconnect with their purpose, set boundaries, and find their way back to loving the work.

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“ For people who are really struggling right now in this industry, in this career, if on those days you can think back to what your true purpose is, which is helping others,  if you can remember what your overall purpose is, those conversations that are frustrating, they're going to be forgotten in a week. But how you go about helping people, you have a purpose of being here and the impact that you have on others, I think most benefits people may not even realize.” – Jennifer Weinstein

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Episode Timestamps:

*(1:11): Jennifer's career path: how she fell into the world of benefits

*(7:16): What benefits burnout actually looks like

*(20:12): Early warning signs of burnout to watch for

*(27:09): Falling back in love with the work: pathways and mindset shifts

*(42:38): How to tell a rough patch from real burnout

*(48:39): What Jennifer hopes readers take away from the book

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Links:

Connect with Jennifer Weinstein on LinkedIn

Benefits Burnout: How to fall (back) in love with your employee benefits career

Connect with Dane Thorwaldson on LinkedIn

Learn more about Collective Health

Learn more about Caspian Studios

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If you’re enjoying The Benefits Playbook, we’d love your support. Take a moment to rate and review the show wherever you’re listening — it really helps others discover us and join the conversation on the future of employee benefits. And while you’re there, don’t forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. If you know a colleague or friend who’d enjoy the conversation, share it with them too. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you next time.

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The views expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Collective Health, its affiliates, sponsors, employees, or customers. This podcast is not intended as legal, medical, or financial advice. If you have any questions or concerns in these areas, please consult with a qualified professional.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Pharmacy costs now represent 35 to 50% of total healthcare spend for many employers. Yet, most plan sponsors are still operating inside a black box they can't see into, let alone control.

In this episode, Jake Frenz, Founder and CEO of SmithRx, breaks down how the traditional pharmacy benefit manager model became one of the most opaque and conflicted structures in all of healthcare, and what employers can actually do about it. A Marine Corps veteran turned serial healthcare entrepreneur, Jake helped build Collective Health from the ground up before launching SmithRx a decade ago, now serving 1.5 million members across 5,000 self-insured companies.

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“ When you think about that $350,000 rebate check coming back to pay for the programs, think about what's going out the door. Think about from a finance standpoint, what the cash out is that you have to true up with that rebate. You're paying a bolus, you're paying an increased amount upfront to get a rebate in arrears. There's a time, value, money, and overall concern there. I think that it's an easy argument to have, or discussion really, with the CFO around move to a transparent model, try to pull back, preference biosimilars or other low net cost options. And rebates, at the end of the day, today are real. Should rebates exist in this ecosystem? Probably not. I don't think they should. But that is a matter of fact today, and you have to meet the market where it's at. Those rebates will continue even under a transparent pass-through model. They just may be less, and that's okay because you're going to look at that per member, per month, true net cost, what your cash out is going to be, and that is a very easy, simple story to tell.” – Jake Frenz

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Episode Timestamps:

*(01:24): Jake Frenz's background: from Marine Corps to PBM founder

*(03:00): A brief history of pharmacy benefit managers and how we got here

*(10:14): Jake's journey from Anthem and Collective Health to founding SmithRx

*(18:27): What transparency actually means and why it equals control

*(20:33): The questions every plan sponsor should be asking their PBM

*(40:37): AI in pharmacy benefits: where it helps and where accuracy is non-negotiable

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Links:

Connect with Jake Frenz on LinkedIn

Connect with Dane Thorwaldson on LinkedIn

Learn more about Collective Health

Learn more about Caspian Studios

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If you’re enjoying The Benefits Playbook, we’d love your support. Take a moment to rate and review the show wherever you’re listening — it really helps others discover us and join the conversation on the future of employee benefits. And while you’re there, don’t forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. If you know a colleague or friend who’d enjoy the conversation, share it with them too. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll see you next time.

-------

The views expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Collective Health, its affiliates, sponsors, employees, or customers. This podcast is not intended as legal, medical, or financial advice. If you have any questions or concerns in these areas, please consult with a qualified professional.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.