Why is beauty so important to scientists, even those without religious convictions? And is that in some way connected to the failure of New Atheism, which began two decades ago this year? Rupert’s two books on science and spiritual practices inform the conversation, as does research by Guy Hayward, Linda Woodhead, Simon Conway Morris, Micheal Levin and a team led by Fraser Watts. Why is providence such a powerful intuition? And might related matters have anything to do with the extraordinary power of Large Language Models?

0:00 V: Spiritual practice trials
4:27 S: Singing together
7:54 V: Music and enchantment
10:00 V: New Atheism and providence
12:46 S: Providence or blind chance?
14:22 V: Scientists and beauty
16:47 S: Gratuitous beauty in nature
20:22 V: Evolution as search engine
22:20 S: Platonism and morphic resonance
26:00 V: Why are LLMs so good?
30:20 S: Language conveys experience
31:59 V: Closing thanks

An ancient intuition is that plants have souls and even participate in the life of God by virtue of being alive. But what sense can be made of that today? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon consider the Neoplatonic understanding that all living creatures, and perhaps all self-organising things, have a soul as part of their existence. But what does this imply about plant perception, plant intelligence, and plant awareness? Why do plants so inspire artists, mystics, and scientists - as well as worldwide activities such as the cut flower industry? Rupert has spend decades both studying plants and profoundly enjoying their presence in his life. Mark feels the inspiration that plants offer the contemplative life. Considering the souls of plants is quite as generative of insights and questions as plants are themselves generative of beautiful forms of life.

Does art need to have a sacred dimension to be art at all? What are the sources of inspiration? In this dialogue, which is the 102nd in the series, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon, explore how meaning and beauty, truth and connection might be manifested in the arts. What is the role of reverence and empathy, place and intelligence? Conversely, what is lost when art loses a reference beyond the human and mechanical world? If art energizes the human spirit, encourages awareness, and revitalises symbols, how might it speak to us today of what it is be human and to live in a more than human world?

The conversation took place in The Garrison Chapel, Chelsea, and was organised by The King’s Foundation.

Chapters

0:00 V: Welcome, cave art and the meaning of sympathy

6:09 R: Museums as temples, art stripped of the sacred

13:38 V: A deconsecrated chapel, the Vatican's galleries and the spectator

21:19 R: Cultural breaks and continuity, from Egypt to India

24:56 V: One divine source, many forms; Dante and iconoclasm

29:24 R: Keith Critchlow, geometry and the forms of nature

33:23 V: Beauty's call, prayer at Lascaux, Piero della Francesca and Blake

38:37 R: Making by hand, from stone tools to museums of bones

42:22 V: Closing remarks