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Maurizio Leo, founder of The Perfect Loaf and James Beard Award-winning cookbook author, joins me to celebrate the release of his new book, The Perfect Pizza.

Growing up in his father's pizzeria, Maurizio developed a love for pizza long before he became known for sourdough bread. Now he's bringing his thoughtful, technique-driven approach to making exceptional sourdough pizza at home.

We explore what makes pizza dough different from bread dough, why fermentation is everything, choosing the right flour, managing hydration and extensibility, using young levains, and finding the sweet spot for whole grains.

We also step outside the kitchen to talk about Maurizio's transition from engineering to baking, finding purpose in your work, and why curiosity is essential to growth.

Find Maurizio and his new book:

The Perfect Pizza | Order the book

The Perfect Loaf | Website and recipes

Instagram | @maurizio

Support independent bookstores | Bookshop.org

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A little something different this week! I'm sitting down for an unedited Q&A, answering questions submitted by Saving Bread listeners from around the world.

We're talking about blending flours for better sourdough, shaping dough based on how it behaves, knowing when to stop adding bassinage water, choosing quality grains without breaking the bank, and finding loyal customers for your cottage bakery.

And we end with a more personal question: What has bread baking taught me about myself?

From practical baking techniques to the lessons that stay with us long after the bread comes out of the oven, this is a casual conversation about making better bread and growing along the way.

In this episode:

• Blending different flours for strength, extensibility, and flavor
• Sourdough shaping and avoiding too much tension
• Bassinage, dough hydration, and temperature control
• Choosing affordable whole grains and supporting local farmers
• Finding and keeping customers for your microbakery
• Learning to accept failure and keep moving forward

Thank you to everyone who submitted questions!

Follow shaping on Instagram: @matriarchbread

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What do sourdough bread, music, pottery, and a colorful silicone scrubber have in common? Joshua Grange.

Joshua is a lifelong professional musician who has toured and recorded with artists including kd lang, Beck, and Sheryl Crow. He's also a passionate sourdough baker, the creator of DOAP, and the musician behind the Saving Bread theme song.

In this episode, Allison sits down with her good friend Joshua for a funny, thoughtful, and wonderfully unpredictable conversation about creativity, friendship, and finding fulfillment in the things we make.

We explore how Joshua's journey from professional music to sourdough baking led to the invention of DOAP, why embracing failure is essential to learning, and how the worlds of music, pottery, and bread share more in common than we might think.

We also talk about whole grains, the importance of supporting local farmers, the inspiration behind his free DOAP-Calc for baker's math and levain calculations, and why not everything we love needs to become a business.

Along the way, Joshua shares the story behind "Crush Out," the song listeners hear every week on Saving Bread, and offers his own perspective on what saving bread really means.

More than anything, this is a conversation between two friends who believe in creativity, community, and making room for everyone at the table.

Connect with Joshua and explore DOAP:

DOAP Website

Free DOAP-Calc

Instagram @getdoap

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What does it take to build a stronger, more connected baking community, and how do we make sure the people preserving the craft of bread baking have the resources they need to succeed?

This week on Saving Bread, I'm joined by Karen Bornarth, Executive Director of the Bread Bakers Guild of America, and Wai Chu, the Guild's Education and Events Manager, for a conversation about education, community, the business of baking, and the future of our industry.

Founded in 1993, the Bread Bakers Guild of America has spent more than three decades bringing bakers together to exchange knowledge, improve their craft, and support one another. Today, the organization serves everyone from aspiring bakery owners and cottage bakers to experienced production professionals.

Karen shares her journey through professional baking, education, and workforce development, and why she's become so passionate about helping independent bakeries build sustainable businesses.

Wai brings his own experiences as an entrepreneur and educator to the conversation, sharing how the Guild creates opportunities for bakers to learn from one another through classes, workshops, and in-person gatherings.

We also take a deep dive into Camp Bread 2027, the Guild's three-day educational gathering returning to Rhode Island next March.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The history and mission of the Bread Bakers Guild of America
• Why community and knowledge sharing matter in an increasingly digital baking world
• Supporting cottage bakers, small businesses, and large-scale production bakeries
• The Guild's educational programming, formula database, and professional certification opportunities
• Making bakery ownership more sustainable and financially viable
• What to expect from Camp Bread 2027, including hands-on baking classes, business workshops, and opportunities to connect with fellow bakers
• Why preserving the craft of baking also means supporting the people behind it

CAMP BREAD 2027 REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN!

Registration opened October 28, 2026.

March 9–11, 2027
Johnson & Wales University
Providence, Rhode Island area

Camp Bread brings together baking professionals for three days of education, collaboration, and community. Active annual membership in the Bread Bakers Guild of America is currently required to register.

LINKS & RESOURCES

Bread Bakers Guild of America
https://www.bbga.org/

Camp Bread 2027 Information
https://www.bbga.org/Camp-Bread-2027/

Register for Camp Bread 2027
https://members.bbga.org/event-6872608

Become a Guild Member
https://www.bbga.org/Join

Building Your Bakery Educational Series
https://www.bbga.org/Building-Your-Bakery

Guild Professional Certification
https://www.bbga.org/Get-Certified

Learn more about Matriarch Bread
https://matriarchbread.com

Thank you for listening to Saving Bread!

Send us a question or voice memo!

This week on Saving Bread, I'm joined by Cat Cox, the baker and owner of Country Bird Bakery in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and the 2025 James Beard Award winner for Outstanding Pastry Chef or Baker.

Cat's journey into baking began in restaurant kitchens, where her curiosity about sourdough and locally sourced ingredients eventually grew into a much bigger vision. In 2022, she opened Country Bird Bakery with a commitment to celebrating the grains, farmers, millers, and agricultural traditions of the American Heartland.

At the center of Cat's philosophy is the idea of terroir, that bread, much like wine, can and should reflect the place where it's made.

In this conversation, we explore what it means to create bread with a regional identity, the challenges of sourcing locally grown and stone-milled grains, and why limitations in ingredients can sometimes lead to our most creative work.

We also get into the technical side of baking with whole grains, including how Cat selects different wheat varieties for breads and pastries, adjusts hydration when working with unfamiliar flour, and uses grains like Sonoran wheat, rye, and buckwheat to create distinctive flavors.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How Cat's restaurant background led to the creation of Country Bird Bakery
• The meaning of terroir in bread and why regional identity matters
• Building relationships with local farmers and millers
• Using locally available ingredients when fresh-milled flour is difficult to source
• Why pastry can be a wonderful introduction to whole grains
• Choosing hard and soft wheat varieties for bread and laminated pastries
• Adjusting hydration and fermentation when changing grain varieties
• Making whole grains desirable through flavor rather than nutritional claims
• Staying true to your baking philosophy and finding your audience
• Cat's experience winning the 2025 James Beard Award

One of my favorite takeaways from this conversation was Cat's encouragement to look at what's growing around us rather than always searching elsewhere for inspiration. I was so inspired that afterward, I created a honey oat sourdough using 100% locally sourced ingredients.

Whether you're a home baker experimenting with whole grains or a professional looking to build stronger connections with your regional grain economy, this conversation is full of practical advice and inspiration to bring back to your own kitchen.

Connect with Cat Cox and Country Bird Bakery

Website: https://www.countrybirdbakery.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/countrybirdbakery/

Country Bird Bakery
1644 E 3rd St, Unit B
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74120

Connect with Saving Bread

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savingbreadpodcast/

Podcast website: https://savingbread.buzzsprout.com/

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/saving-bread/id1896790106

Follow Allison and Matriarch Bread

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/matriarchbreadco/

Website: https://matriarchbread.com/

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a fellow baker and leave a rating or review. Your support helps these conversations reach more people who care about bread, agriculture, and the people behind our food.

Long live real bread. 🌾

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My dear friend, mentor, and fellow baker Josh Fairbanks returns to Saving Bread for an honest, completely unedited conversation about scalds, dough development, and the art of becoming a more intuitive baker.

We begin by answering listener-submitted questions about scalds: what they are, how they differ from porridges, and why they can be such a valuable tool for incorporating flavorful grains like rye, einkorn, and buckwheat into bread. We discuss hydration, starch gelatinization, mixing techniques, and practical considerations for both home bakers and larger-scale production.

From there, we dive into gluten development, bassinage, folding, and why developing strength early in the mixing process can make life considerably easier for the baker.

But as conversations with Josh often do, we eventually wander into something deeper: learning to trust our senses, questioning rigid methods, and recognizing that making consistently beautiful bread doesn't necessarily mean doing the exact same thing every time.

This episode is a little different. No editing, no polishing, just two friends talking bread, answering your questions, sharing experiences, and occasionally letting the dogs out.

We hope it feels like you've pulled up a seat at the bench alongside us.

Interested in working with Josh? Learn more about his baking consultations at fairbanksbread.com/consult.

If you enjoy Saving Bread, please consider leaving a five-star review or sharing the podcast with a fellow baker.

Happy baking, and long live real bread!